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If there's one minute fraction of a good thing to come out of this it's generational change that is now both ignoring and wrestling control of education & polit

If there's one minute fraction of a good thing to come out of this it's generational change that is now both ignoring and wrestling control of education & politics from the Irish Catholic Church. It is all I can do to bite my tongue when I receive questioning looks from elder relatives for not going to church, not getting married in a 'real church' etc etc. I respect my elders but I can't square the circle that is their tacit acceptance of the evils the church has done in Ireland.

CalRobert 9y ago
Maybe it's a matter of being in the south Dublin bubble, but I can't think of anyone I know that is religious (aside from a vague cultural identity sense). For the most part I hear the church regarded with scorn. Things like this may help - https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/school-baptism-barrier-is-unfair-on-parents-says-bruton-1.3137790 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/school-baptism-bar... - though for all that I just added my daughter to an educate together waitlist. She's two months old.
- thriftwy 9y ago
  > 90 per cent of schools are catholic I wonder where those get money to operate from. Is it really money gathered by good catholics, or is it effectively money from the state coffers that people of faith get, cross over and then pass as their own? Truncate their funding and suddently you have 10% of catholic schools instead of 90%. There's zero reasons why general populace should baptise church in their tax money.
- padraic7a 9y ago
  The vague cultural identity can have fairly concrete impacts though - baptisims, kids making their first communion in school thus religious instruction, Church control of schools etc. From the 50 odd primary schools listed here as being ins South Dublin a quick read through puts a majority as religious run schools just based on the name: https://www.schooldays.ie/primary-schools-in-ireland/primary-Dublin-south-county-dublin https://www.schooldays.ie/primary-schools-in-ireland/primary... My wife is expecting our first child in a few weeks - I expect to go from the registrar office with his birth cert straight to the two nearest Educate Together schools.
  - scientistem 9y ago
    The idea of receiving your first communion at SCHOOL is fairly mind-boggling to an american!
  - CalRobert 9y ago
    I wasn't even thinking of baptism or communion, to be honest it was more of a "I guess my family would be considered protestant / Catholic" sense.
DiffEq 9y ago
I am not so sure this will fix the problem. The Catholic Church had access to children, people that would take advantage of it sought the positions where they could exploit such power. Places where governments run schools have the same problem...the evil people that will exploit such power and positions always manage to find their way in...and then the organizations tend to always struggle with getting rid of such persons. The problem is with human nature. The only way to reduce (you will never eliminate) such problems is to deal with the violators with certain, swift and harsh punishments (death). You put a lot of blame on the Catholic Church (not that you shouldn't) - but where has the Irish government stepped in and purged the violators?
- acorkery 9y ago
  > The only way to reduce (you will never eliminate) such problems is to deal with the violators with certain, swift and harsh punishments (death). You put a lot of blame on the Catholic Church (not that you shouldn't) - but where has the Irish government stepped in and purged the violators? If only Fine Gael had a Rodrigo Duterte on the back benches..
dalbasal 9y ago
..and the insults ongoing, even if they are symbolic. Ranking 6 year olds' right to go to a school by proximity and denominational affiliation is wrong, and every parent feels it. Personally, I think we should rebuild monto. Legion OF Mary can pay for it.

CalRobert 9y ago

Maybe it's a matter of being in the south Dublin bubble, but I can't think of anyone I know that is religious (aside from a vague cultural identity sense). For the most part I hear the church regarded with scorn. Things like this may help - https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/school-baptism-barrier-is-unfair-on-parents-says-bruton-1.3137790 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/school-baptism-bar... - though for all that I just added my daughter to an educate together waitlist. She's two months old.

thriftwy 9y ago
> 90 per cent of schools are catholic I wonder where those get money to operate from. Is it really money gathered by good catholics, or is it effectively money from the state coffers that people of faith get, cross over and then pass as their own? Truncate their funding and suddently you have 10% of catholic schools instead of 90%. There's zero reasons why general populace should baptise church in their tax money.
padraic7a 9y ago
The vague cultural identity can have fairly concrete impacts though - baptisims, kids making their first communion in school thus religious instruction, Church control of schools etc. From the 50 odd primary schools listed here as being ins South Dublin a quick read through puts a majority as religious run schools just based on the name: https://www.schooldays.ie/primary-schools-in-ireland/primary-Dublin-south-county-dublin https://www.schooldays.ie/primary-schools-in-ireland/primary... My wife is expecting our first child in a few weeks - I expect to go from the registrar office with his birth cert straight to the two nearest Educate Together schools.
- scientistem 9y ago
  The idea of receiving your first communion at SCHOOL is fairly mind-boggling to an american!
- CalRobert 9y ago
  I wasn't even thinking of baptism or communion, to be honest it was more of a "I guess my family would be considered protestant / Catholic" sense.

DiffEq 9y ago

I am not so sure this will fix the problem. The Catholic Church had access to children, people that would take advantage of it sought the positions where they could exploit such power. Places where governments run schools have the same problem...the evil people that will exploit such power and positions always manage to find their way in...and then the organizations tend to always struggle with getting rid of such persons. The problem is with human nature. The only way to reduce (you will never eliminate) such problems is to deal with the violators with certain, swift and harsh punishments (death). You put a lot of blame on the Catholic Church (not that you shouldn't) - but where has the Irish government stepped in and purged the violators?

acorkery 9y ago
> The only way to reduce (you will never eliminate) such problems is to deal with the violators with certain, swift and harsh punishments (death). You put a lot of blame on the Catholic Church (not that you shouldn't) - but where has the Irish government stepped in and purged the violators? If only Fine Gael had a Rodrigo Duterte on the back benches..

dalbasal 9y ago

..and the insults ongoing, even if they are symbolic. Ranking 6 year olds' right to go to a school by proximity and denominational affiliation is wrong, and every parent feels it. Personally, I think we should rebuild monto. Legion OF Mary can pay for it.