5 ms·

That would penalize startups, giving only large companies access to the foreign labour pool. It's rare that a problem like this has a simple solution.

spinlock 9y ago
Startups do not use H1B workers. A startup is actually hiring someone for a role and they can't take the risk that their guy will lose the lottery. Plus, the application is just beyond what most startups are going to have the time to do.
- cardine 9y ago
  That is not even remotely true. Anyone who can afford a software developer can afford an immigration attorney to handle applying for an H1B. Plus it usually takes 2-3 years to know if someone isn't going to get the H1B lottery during their OPT which is a longer time horizon than most startups are concerned with anyways. I think most startups simply hire who they view as the most qualified person regardless of immigration status. Source: Have a startup that hires software developers.
  - praneshp 9y ago
    > That is not even remotely true. Anyone who can afford a software developer can afford an immigration attorney to handle applying for an H1B. The problem with using sweeping statements like "anyone who can..." is that one example is enough to disprove you. There'll be Who's Hiring thread in a couple of days, watch how many young startups say no new H1Bs on that. Your OPT case is only true when hiring a student on F1
    - cardine 9y ago
      > The problem with using sweeping statements like "anyone who can..." is that one example is enough to disprove you. There'll be Who's Hiring thread in a couple of days, watch how many young startups say no new H1Bs on that. We don't have to wait - we can look at the one from last month: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15384262 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15384262 I did a Ctrl+F and nothing came up for "H1B" and the only thing that came up for "citizen" was a job posting for the US government itself.
      - praneshp 9y ago
        Did you keep clicking on see more and get the entire page? Give me an hour or so, I'll find you a few links when I'm off the Caltrain. Edit: I had to get to page3, but: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15391862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15391862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15386201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15386201 (Though I believe the second one is some team specific thing, I know that at least AWS sponsor H1Bs for fresh grads). Then on p5: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15384311 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15384311 (I was confident about this because I was job hunting about a year ago, and was exclusively looking at companies under 50 people. Most of them were fine with H1B transfer, but explicitly said no new applications.)
- grad_ml 9y ago
  Not really. Not every one come from fresh H1b. There are tons of H1B transfer cases. If you're interested, pick your favourite startup, go to H1bdata.info, very likely you'll find few cases of h1b hire. Hopefully, may be next time, you'll be more factual.
- jogjayr 9y ago
  > A startup is actually hiring someone for a role and they can't take the risk that their guy will lose the lottery. If they hire someone who already has an H1B working at another company they only have to perform a transfer, which is processed as a lottery-exempt new application i.e. same salary and credential and experience requirements as a new application but no need to go through the lottery. Most startups likely aren't going to hire someone fresh out of school or straight from another country (hence needing a new, lottery H1B). They will prefer someone who is local and has some experience. > Plus, the application is just beyond what most startups are going to have the time to do. H1B transfers take 15 days if premium processed, which is an additional fee of ~$1500. That's well within the budget of your average VC-funded startup. The transfer also adds an extra 2 weeks to an H1B candidate's start date over a domestic candidate (because no candidate is going to give 2-week notice at their current job until the transfer is approved) but it's not an insurmountable issue. It's true that super-early stage startups (< 20 employees) may still not bother with this extra bureaucracy. But there I think it's because at that size the founders' and early employees' professional networks provide a sufficiently healthy pipeline of candidates, so they'd rather keep working and shipping than deal with immigration lawyers. On the other hand if someone on the founding team isn't a citizen/permanent resident, they'd still do it (eg. Laks Srini at Zenefits).
- adrianbg 9y ago
  You don't know what you're talking about. I am an immigrant working at a startup and I know many others.
marme 9y ago
they are already penalized. H1B farms like tata and inforsys just submit thousands of applications knowing most wont make it through the lottery. They are just throwing shit and the wall and seeing what sticks. Startups cant afford to file that many applications and only submit one application for the worker they need and most likely wont get it
- adrianbg 9y ago
  Yes they are already penalized. I personally am kinda happy about this blacklisting. The startup doesn't need to file the H1B themselves. The employee can transfer it from another company.

spinlock 9y ago

Startups do not use H1B workers. A startup is actually hiring someone for a role and they can't take the risk that their guy will lose the lottery. Plus, the application is just beyond what most startups are going to have the time to do.

cardine 9y ago
That is not even remotely true. Anyone who can afford a software developer can afford an immigration attorney to handle applying for an H1B. Plus it usually takes 2-3 years to know if someone isn't going to get the H1B lottery during their OPT which is a longer time horizon than most startups are concerned with anyways. I think most startups simply hire who they view as the most qualified person regardless of immigration status. Source: Have a startup that hires software developers.
- praneshp 9y ago
  > That is not even remotely true. Anyone who can afford a software developer can afford an immigration attorney to handle applying for an H1B. The problem with using sweeping statements like "anyone who can..." is that one example is enough to disprove you. There'll be Who's Hiring thread in a couple of days, watch how many young startups say no new H1Bs on that. Your OPT case is only true when hiring a student on F1
  - cardine 9y ago
    > The problem with using sweeping statements like "anyone who can..." is that one example is enough to disprove you. There'll be Who's Hiring thread in a couple of days, watch how many young startups say no new H1Bs on that. We don't have to wait - we can look at the one from last month: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15384262 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15384262 I did a Ctrl+F and nothing came up for "H1B" and the only thing that came up for "citizen" was a job posting for the US government itself.
    - praneshp 9y ago
      Did you keep clicking on see more and get the entire page? Give me an hour or so, I'll find you a few links when I'm off the Caltrain. Edit: I had to get to page3, but: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15391862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15391862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15386201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15386201 (Though I believe the second one is some team specific thing, I know that at least AWS sponsor H1Bs for fresh grads). Then on p5: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15384311 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15384311 (I was confident about this because I was job hunting about a year ago, and was exclusively looking at companies under 50 people. Most of them were fine with H1B transfer, but explicitly said no new applications.)
grad_ml 9y ago
Not really. Not every one come from fresh H1b. There are tons of H1B transfer cases. If you're interested, pick your favourite startup, go to H1bdata.info, very likely you'll find few cases of h1b hire. Hopefully, may be next time, you'll be more factual.
jogjayr 9y ago
> A startup is actually hiring someone for a role and they can't take the risk that their guy will lose the lottery. If they hire someone who already has an H1B working at another company they only have to perform a transfer, which is processed as a lottery-exempt new application i.e. same salary and credential and experience requirements as a new application but no need to go through the lottery. Most startups likely aren't going to hire someone fresh out of school or straight from another country (hence needing a new, lottery H1B). They will prefer someone who is local and has some experience. > Plus, the application is just beyond what most startups are going to have the time to do. H1B transfers take 15 days if premium processed, which is an additional fee of ~$1500. That's well within the budget of your average VC-funded startup. The transfer also adds an extra 2 weeks to an H1B candidate's start date over a domestic candidate (because no candidate is going to give 2-week notice at their current job until the transfer is approved) but it's not an insurmountable issue. It's true that super-early stage startups (< 20 employees) may still not bother with this extra bureaucracy. But there I think it's because at that size the founders' and early employees' professional networks provide a sufficiently healthy pipeline of candidates, so they'd rather keep working and shipping than deal with immigration lawyers. On the other hand if someone on the founding team isn't a citizen/permanent resident, they'd still do it (eg. Laks Srini at Zenefits).
adrianbg 9y ago
You don't know what you're talking about. I am an immigrant working at a startup and I know many others.

marme 9y ago

they are already penalized. H1B farms like tata and inforsys just submit thousands of applications knowing most wont make it through the lottery. They are just throwing shit and the wall and seeing what sticks. Startups cant afford to file that many applications and only submit one application for the worker they need and most likely wont get it

adrianbg 9y ago
Yes they are already penalized. I personally am kinda happy about this blacklisting. The startup doesn't need to file the H1B themselves. The employee can transfer it from another company.