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How exactly can you have a citizen that is unable to get a government-issued ID? That is a failure of the government. They either have the documents and/or gove

by zo1 9y ago

How exactly can you have a citizen that is unable to get a government-issued ID? That is a failure of the government. They either have the documents and/or government records to prove that they are a citizen, or they're not a citizen. A law requiring citizens to have IDs to vote is not the problem. The problem is the processes that aren't assisting citizens that struggle to get IDs.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> How exactly can you have a citizen that is unable to get a government-issued ID? That is a failure of the government. This isn't a prima facie truth. I agree that IDs should not be a challenge to procure. But a reasonable electorate may, as Americans have, choose to prioritize other things.
ifhd 9y ago
because that's exactly the point. Make it as hard as you can to get IDs, make those IDs required to vote. There, you just effectively disenfranchised a group. Then you gerrymander the districts a bunch to split up blocs of voters and prevent them having a majority. Then you reduce the voting hours, eliminate early voting, and reduce number of places you can vote. This causes massive lines, making it harder to vote.1
mikeash 9y ago
You're treating it as two separate problems, but in reality they're intertwined. In an ideal world, you create a voter ID policy in order to ensure the integrity of the vote. You figure out sensible policies to ensure that every eligible voter can vote, and enact them. Separately, you create an ID system that all citizens can use. In reality, voter ID policies are often created with the intent of making it more difficult for certain groups to vote. They figure out policies to ensure that voters on the "right" side can vote, and voters on the "wrong" side can't. For example, they might accept a form of ID commonly held by one group, and not accept a different form of ID commonly held by the other group. Or they might restrict hours or shut down ID offices in areas populated by the "wrong" side to make it more difficult for them to obtain acceptable ID. Both of these have actually been done in various states. Voter ID laws and making it more difficult for certain groups to obtain ID are two sides of the same coin here.

by zo1 9y ago

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> How exactly can you have a citizen that is unable to get a government-issued ID? That is a failure of the government. This isn't a prima facie truth. I agree that IDs should not be a challenge to procure. But a reasonable electorate may, as Americans have, choose to prioritize other things.

ifhd 9y ago

because that's exactly the point. Make it as hard as you can to get IDs, make those IDs required to vote. There, you just effectively disenfranchised a group. Then you gerrymander the districts a bunch to split up blocs of voters and prevent them having a majority. Then you reduce the voting hours, eliminate early voting, and reduce number of places you can vote. This causes massive lines, making it harder to vote.1

mikeash 9y ago

You're treating it as two separate problems, but in reality they're intertwined. In an ideal world, you create a voter ID policy in order to ensure the integrity of the vote. You figure out sensible policies to ensure that every eligible voter can vote, and enact them. Separately, you create an ID system that all citizens can use. In reality, voter ID policies are often created with the intent of making it more difficult for certain groups to vote. They figure out policies to ensure that voters on the "right" side can vote, and voters on the "wrong" side can't. For example, they might accept a form of ID commonly held by one group, and not accept a different form of ID commonly held by the other group. Or they might restrict hours or shut down ID offices in areas populated by the "wrong" side to make it more difficult for them to obtain acceptable ID. Both of these have actually been done in various states. Voter ID laws and making it more difficult for certain groups to obtain ID are two sides of the same coin here.