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There sorely needs to be a corollary to net-neutrality, where websites cannot discriminate users based on the choice of their ISP/vpn/tor/vps/cloud-provider. I

There sorely needs to be a corollary to net-neutrality, where websites cannot discriminate users based on the choice of their ISP/vpn/tor/vps/cloud-provider. I find it absurd that websites are even allowed to display a banner with phrasing like, "We detect that you are using a vpn. Disable it to view this site." Netflix, the champion of net neutrality, is the biggest offender in this area.

stanmancan 9y ago
Netflix had to crack down on VPN usage recently as people use them to bypass geographic content restrictions. Any suggestions on alternative options they could pursue? (Aside from somehow getting global broadcasting rights on their whole library)
- bubblethink 9y ago
  They didn't have to do anything. Netflix is a paid service. You are paying for a service, which you are entitled to get. What geo-drm-moon-phase recipe they cook up is their problem. As a consumer who pays, you should see either a) content from your billing address, or b) content from the IP address. Or any superset of the two; but NOT a banner asking you to disable your vpn.
  - tqi 9y ago
    Netflix charges different amounts in different countries, which is why your subscription is tied to a geo.
  - stanmancan 9y ago
    Netflix would LOVE to provide their whole catalogue to their whole subscriber base. They'd be crazy not to. The more content they can offer, the better their service, the more subscribers they'll get. They block VPN's and other tools because their contracts with content providers say so. It even says it right in their terms of use 4.3. You may view the Netflix content primarily within the country in which you have established your account and only in geographic locations where we offer our service and have licensed such content. Netflix is in the tough position of needing to know where you are -now-. VPN's mess with that. Don't get me wrong, requiring someone to disable a VPN to use the service is bullocks. But some services don't have much of an option. From what I understand Netflix is aggressively trying to obtain world-wide rights for their whole library, but until the old dog content producers get on board they'll have a rough time.
- ihale 9y ago
  Would they not be able to tie the location to the account? If, say, they register as a US user, an ip change from US, to France caused by VPN would leave little issue. Correct me if I am wrong.
  - freeone3000 9y ago
    You're right, technically, but incorrect legally, because if you don't VPN and instead hop a plane to France, they just streamed US content to France. No-go.
- Untit1ed 9y ago
  They could be implementing blocking at the title level instead of on the whole site - so with a VPN I can't watch geofenced content but I can watch House of Cards, for instance.
skizm 9y ago
I sort of agree, but I believe Netflix is legally obligated to do this due to licenses/copyright laws that they have. So they probably have to put in some legally defined amount of effort into combating people "cheating" or working around the regional licenses. Their hands are tied. That's my guess at least.
- confounded 9y ago
  They optionally sign contracts which contain geo-fencing clauses. There’s no law that says content must be geo fenced, and that suspicion of proxy use, for any purpose must result in denial of service.
  - jimbobimbo 9y ago
    There's no law, but then there's no content, which Netflix needs to serve their users. Netflix is a business, not an entity set up to fight Internet freedom.
    - confounded 9y ago
      So before Netflix introduced a VPN ban, Netflix didn’t exist? Same for Amazon, Apple, etc. etc.? No. Rights holders groups asked for it, and they said yes to increase their margins.
      - jimbobimbo 9y ago
        Sure. And if they said "no" to rights holders, rights holders would pull the licenses. Whether the move increases Netflix or not - doesn't matter really. As long as they license someone else's content, they have to play by someone else's rules. If this play also increases Netflix's margins, so be it - all I care about is having access to movies.
        confounded 9y ago
        You have an awful lot of certainty about the positions of both parties in these contract negotiations. It seems more likely to me that Netflix would simply have to pay more. I’m sure Netflix could pay less in exchange for the IP and email addresses of people watching in real-time, too, but that doesn’t mean it’s either inevitable or desirable. I imagine that Netflix as a distribution platform may wield more power than you imagine.
andrei_says_ 9y ago
Netflix unfortunately is tied to draconian region-specific content distribution agreements with some of the biggest content producing/owning companies in the world. Don’t think they can ignore the VPNs without significant legal issues and potentially losin much of their content.
snuxoll 9y ago
What's even more annoying is Netflix treating things like tunnelbroker.net as VPN's. I'm really tired of my ISP's lack of proper IPv6 connectivity, I was using tunnelbroker for a while but got tired of fighting to get Netflix working correctly.

stanmancan 9y ago

Netflix had to crack down on VPN usage recently as people use them to bypass geographic content restrictions. Any suggestions on alternative options they could pursue? (Aside from somehow getting global broadcasting rights on their whole library)

bubblethink 9y ago
They didn't have to do anything. Netflix is a paid service. You are paying for a service, which you are entitled to get. What geo-drm-moon-phase recipe they cook up is their problem. As a consumer who pays, you should see either a) content from your billing address, or b) content from the IP address. Or any superset of the two; but NOT a banner asking you to disable your vpn.
- tqi 9y ago
  Netflix charges different amounts in different countries, which is why your subscription is tied to a geo.
- stanmancan 9y ago
  Netflix would LOVE to provide their whole catalogue to their whole subscriber base. They'd be crazy not to. The more content they can offer, the better their service, the more subscribers they'll get. They block VPN's and other tools because their contracts with content providers say so. It even says it right in their terms of use 4.3. You may view the Netflix content primarily within the country in which you have established your account and only in geographic locations where we offer our service and have licensed such content. Netflix is in the tough position of needing to know where you are -now-. VPN's mess with that. Don't get me wrong, requiring someone to disable a VPN to use the service is bullocks. But some services don't have much of an option. From what I understand Netflix is aggressively trying to obtain world-wide rights for their whole library, but until the old dog content producers get on board they'll have a rough time.
ihale 9y ago
Would they not be able to tie the location to the account? If, say, they register as a US user, an ip change from US, to France caused by VPN would leave little issue. Correct me if I am wrong.
- freeone3000 9y ago
  You're right, technically, but incorrect legally, because if you don't VPN and instead hop a plane to France, they just streamed US content to France. No-go.
Untit1ed 9y ago
They could be implementing blocking at the title level instead of on the whole site - so with a VPN I can't watch geofenced content but I can watch House of Cards, for instance.

skizm 9y ago

I sort of agree, but I believe Netflix is legally obligated to do this due to licenses/copyright laws that they have. So they probably have to put in some legally defined amount of effort into combating people "cheating" or working around the regional licenses. Their hands are tied. That's my guess at least.

confounded 9y ago
They optionally sign contracts which contain geo-fencing clauses. There’s no law that says content must be geo fenced, and that suspicion of proxy use, for any purpose must result in denial of service.
- jimbobimbo 9y ago
  There's no law, but then there's no content, which Netflix needs to serve their users. Netflix is a business, not an entity set up to fight Internet freedom.
  - confounded 9y ago
    So before Netflix introduced a VPN ban, Netflix didn’t exist? Same for Amazon, Apple, etc. etc.? No. Rights holders groups asked for it, and they said yes to increase their margins.
    - jimbobimbo 9y ago
      Sure. And if they said "no" to rights holders, rights holders would pull the licenses. Whether the move increases Netflix or not - doesn't matter really. As long as they license someone else's content, they have to play by someone else's rules. If this play also increases Netflix's margins, so be it - all I care about is having access to movies.
      - confounded 9y ago
        You have an awful lot of certainty about the positions of both parties in these contract negotiations. It seems more likely to me that Netflix would simply have to pay more. I’m sure Netflix could pay less in exchange for the IP and email addresses of people watching in real-time, too, but that doesn’t mean it’s either inevitable or desirable. I imagine that Netflix as a distribution platform may wield more power than you imagine.

andrei_says_ 9y ago

Netflix unfortunately is tied to draconian region-specific content distribution agreements with some of the biggest content producing/owning companies in the world. Don’t think they can ignore the VPNs without significant legal issues and potentially losin much of their content.

snuxoll 9y ago

What's even more annoying is Netflix treating things like tunnelbroker.net as VPN's. I'm really tired of my ISP's lack of proper IPv6 connectivity, I was using tunnelbroker for a while but got tired of fighting to get Netflix working correctly.