6 ms·

Lawsplainer: The Manafort/Gates Indictment

38 points by Natsu 9y ago

forapurpose 9y ago
I've seen Popehat around, and in my mind I associate them with a partisan or at least ideological point-of-view. Is that fair? Who are they?
- Danihan 9y ago
  They are libertarian so they generally align with more conservative / right viewpoints. That being said, they seem to be fairly unbiased, in my view.
  - Natsu 9y ago
    There are multiple authors there, actually. One of the more libertarian ones split off a while back. Ken is more liberal. They generally stick to the facts and avoid ideology in most articles. This one is a pretty neutral explanation of the grand jury process that I think is quite informative for most people.
  - throwaway2016a 9y ago
    > They are libertarian so they generally align with more conservative / right viewpoints. Please don't spread misinformation about Liberarians. Libertarians align with conservative views on economics / taxes / welfare but for things like immigration and human rights Libertarians on a whole are left of center. To categorize Libertarians as conservative / right is overly simplistic. Notable examples, Libertarians are anti-prohibition and pro gay rights (in general, there are exceptions to every rule). Edit: bring on the down votes. If one person has their views corrected about what Libertarians stand for It'll be worth it.
    - Danihan 9y ago
      I said lowercase l, not capital L libertarian. I wasn't referring to the Libertarian Party proper, as you seem to be. Considering that the only well-known, self-identified libertarian-esqe political figures in the US are Ron Paul and Rand Paul, and both are prominently Republican, I don't believe identifying libertarians as leaning more conservative is incorrect, nor spreading misinformation.
      - throwaway2016a 9y ago
        Ok... fair enough, I'll buy that. I stand corrected. I was not aware of a difference between lower case l and upper case though and I imagine many readers might not either and will take what you said to apply to all of them. Though I do think your assumption that because the Republican party has more openly libertarian party members than the democrats that means that more libertarians lean right. It could also mean that the Republican party is where libertarian leaning people see themselves as having more of a chance of success were they to need to choose one or the other. I think a libertarian in the Democratic party wouldn't get very far. Also, I used to like Ron Paul (even switched to Republican to vote for him in the primary) but the more I listen to some of the things he says now, he is no libertarian. His son even less so.
        Danihan 9y ago
        What does Rand Paul say that doesn't strike you as libertarian, out of curiosity?
        throwaway2016a 9y ago
        On the following issues that the Libertarians are at odds with the Republicans he sided with the Republicans and/or said it is a States right's issues rather than take a stand: marijuana legalization, LGBT rights, military spending, and foreign policy in general.* I've heard some people argue, "well at least his is more Libertarian than the other Senators" which is true but you can't cherry pick who gets freedom and who gets thrown in jail or their country invaded instead. * He also is pro-life which I didn't list here because I know Libertarian's on both sides of that fence.
- Natsu 9y ago
  More info can be found on their about page: https://www.popehat.com/about/ https://www.popehat.com/about/ Most of the articles are from Ken, who is an expert on first amendment issues as well as a former assistant US attorney. You can find more info about him here: http://mimesislaw.com/fault-lines/cross-ken-white-the-man-beneath-the-popehat/4498 http://mimesislaw.com/fault-lines/cross-ken-white-the-man-be...
  - SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago
    The other major author is Patrick Non-White (Obvious pseudonym). Others are listed at https://www.popehat.com/author/ https://www.popehat.com/author/ though most haven't been active in years. For example Clark split off to https://status451.com/ https://status451.com/ a while back when his views got too extreme for the rest.
- gumby 9y ago
  "they" is one guy, Ken White, a former federal prosecutor. If he can be said to have a partisan/ideological PoV I would call it "mildly libertarian" but as a non-libertarian myself I read him avidly and don't consider him partisan.
  - ZeroGravitas 9y ago
    I believe there are (or were?) other authors, I remember one in particular seeming a bit more extreme in his views (though nothing totally crazy by current political standards) while Ken seemed a bit more reasonable.
- gknoy 9y ago
  Ken blogs about Legal Things. We probably know of him from his "seriously, shut up!" post about talking to police/investigators, or his chronicling of the (karmatically satisfying) downfall of the people who would post their own porn torrents and then sue/blackmail people who torrented them. (If I recall right?) He also spent a long time writing about various legal scams, chronicling the story as they happen (e.g. a mail fraud scam that he called out in 2011 and has been writing about for six years), with digestible non-lawyer-accessible explanations of things that are important or not-as-non-lawyers-might-expect. I'm sure he has a bias, politically or ideologically, but I'm not sure I could articulate what it is. I like reading just about everything he writes.
  - heartbreak 9y ago
    Popehat remarked in his Papadopouslos Lawsplainer [0] today that had Papadopoulos not talked to the FBI back in January, he wouldn't be in the position he's in now. [0] https://www.popehat.com/2017/10/30/lawsplainer-the-george-papadopoulos-guilty-plea/ https://www.popehat.com/2017/10/30/lawsplainer-the-george-pa...
philipov 9y ago
Why is there no mention of the manafort indictment on the front page? It seems like there's something blocking all posts about this...
- burkaman 9y ago
  People really hate politics here. I would guess it's just organic flagging, nothing sinister.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    It's also the sort of TV news that the guidelines recommend against. There's really not that much to discuss, pretty much just speculation about where it all ends up.
    - heartbreak 9y ago
      Oh good heavens there's plenty to discuss: http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/sites/dcd/files/17-mc-2336_MEM_OP_REDACTED%20FOR%20UNSEALING_20171030.pdf http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/sites/dcd/files/17-mc-2336_MEM_O...
      - zie 9y ago
        Having just read this, it seems to say the Special Prosecutor very directly says President Trump at the very least knowingly lied to the US Govt. about his relationships with Ukraine. Is that your understanding as well?
        heartbreak 9y ago
        Yes I also think it’s incredible that the court was convinced by redacted evidence to allow Mueller to question Target A and Target B’s attorney.
- AlexandrB 9y ago
  From HN's posting guidelines: > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. While this makes sense since this is not a political forum, I think the HN mods enforce this to a fault. Some political events are definitely big enough to warrant attention here.
michaelchisari 9y ago
Big stuff, but the George Papadopoulos plea deal may be the bigger story.
- IgorPartola 9y ago
  It seems like Papadopoulos is small fish here that will be used to get incriminating info on larger targets. He also confirms that this isn't just about taxes and money laundering when it comes to Manafort. And my guess is that Manafort isn't the final target of the investigation either.
- SloopJon 9y ago
  Popehat has a separate "Lawsplainer" post on that: https://www.popehat.com/2017/10/30/lawsplainer-the-george-papadopoulos-guilty-plea/ https://www.popehat.com/2017/10/30/lawsplainer-the-george-pa...
Overtonwindow 9y ago
As a lobbyist in DC I think an interest facet glazed over by many is the FARA filings. FARA, the Foreign Agents Registration Act, is similar to the law which requires lobbyists (like me) to register with Congress. It tells the government who you are, whom you're lobbying for, money, etc. FARA is rarely enforced, and LDA enforcement is almost nonexistent. Both carry stiff penalties, but I see LDA and FARA enforcement as this extra thing that if you really want to stick it to someone, charge them with failing to file. I know many, many, MANY companies, nonprofits (especially), and other organizations, that flagrantly violate the LDA laws without worry. Unless you're caught on something else, few pay attention, and few in the beltway care. It's time LDAs and FARA filings are enforced, investigated, and those that violate the law, charged.
- Sangermaine 9y ago
  Mueller is hitting Manafort with everything to provide maximum leverage to flip him. I just hope Mueller has considered bringing state charges somewhere if possible, because there is a very real chance Trump will try to use the pardon power to get out of this.

38 points by Natsu 9y ago

I've seen Popehat around, and in my mind I associate them with a partisan or at least ideological point-of-view. Is that fair? Who are they?

Danihan 9y ago
They are libertarian so they generally align with more conservative / right viewpoints. That being said, they seem to be fairly unbiased, in my view.
- Natsu 9y ago
  There are multiple authors there, actually. One of the more libertarian ones split off a while back. Ken is more liberal. They generally stick to the facts and avoid ideology in most articles. This one is a pretty neutral explanation of the grand jury process that I think is quite informative for most people.
- throwaway2016a 9y ago
  > They are libertarian so they generally align with more conservative / right viewpoints. Please don't spread misinformation about Liberarians. Libertarians align with conservative views on economics / taxes / welfare but for things like immigration and human rights Libertarians on a whole are left of center. To categorize Libertarians as conservative / right is overly simplistic. Notable examples, Libertarians are anti-prohibition and pro gay rights (in general, there are exceptions to every rule). Edit: bring on the down votes. If one person has their views corrected about what Libertarians stand for It'll be worth it.
  - Danihan 9y ago
    I said lowercase l, not capital L libertarian. I wasn't referring to the Libertarian Party proper, as you seem to be. Considering that the only well-known, self-identified libertarian-esqe political figures in the US are Ron Paul and Rand Paul, and both are prominently Republican, I don't believe identifying libertarians as leaning more conservative is incorrect, nor spreading misinformation.
    - throwaway2016a 9y ago
      Ok... fair enough, I'll buy that. I stand corrected. I was not aware of a difference between lower case l and upper case though and I imagine many readers might not either and will take what you said to apply to all of them. Though I do think your assumption that because the Republican party has more openly libertarian party members than the democrats that means that more libertarians lean right. It could also mean that the Republican party is where libertarian leaning people see themselves as having more of a chance of success were they to need to choose one or the other. I think a libertarian in the Democratic party wouldn't get very far. Also, I used to like Ron Paul (even switched to Republican to vote for him in the primary) but the more I listen to some of the things he says now, he is no libertarian. His son even less so.
      - Danihan 9y ago
        What does Rand Paul say that doesn't strike you as libertarian, out of curiosity?
        throwaway2016a 9y ago
        On the following issues that the Libertarians are at odds with the Republicans he sided with the Republicans and/or said it is a States right's issues rather than take a stand: marijuana legalization, LGBT rights, military spending, and foreign policy in general.* I've heard some people argue, "well at least his is more Libertarian than the other Senators" which is true but you can't cherry pick who gets freedom and who gets thrown in jail or their country invaded instead. * He also is pro-life which I didn't list here because I know Libertarian's on both sides of that fence.
Natsu 9y ago
More info can be found on their about page: https://www.popehat.com/about/ https://www.popehat.com/about/ Most of the articles are from Ken, who is an expert on first amendment issues as well as a former assistant US attorney. You can find more info about him here: http://mimesislaw.com/fault-lines/cross-ken-white-the-man-beneath-the-popehat/4498 http://mimesislaw.com/fault-lines/cross-ken-white-the-man-be...
- SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago
  The other major author is Patrick Non-White (Obvious pseudonym). Others are listed at https://www.popehat.com/author/ https://www.popehat.com/author/ though most haven't been active in years. For example Clark split off to https://status451.com/ https://status451.com/ a while back when his views got too extreme for the rest.
gumby 9y ago
"they" is one guy, Ken White, a former federal prosecutor. If he can be said to have a partisan/ideological PoV I would call it "mildly libertarian" but as a non-libertarian myself I read him avidly and don't consider him partisan.
- ZeroGravitas 9y ago
  I believe there are (or were?) other authors, I remember one in particular seeming a bit more extreme in his views (though nothing totally crazy by current political standards) while Ken seemed a bit more reasonable.
gknoy 9y ago
Ken blogs about Legal Things. We probably know of him from his "seriously, shut up!" post about talking to police/investigators, or his chronicling of the (karmatically satisfying) downfall of the people who would post their own porn torrents and then sue/blackmail people who torrented them. (If I recall right?) He also spent a long time writing about various legal scams, chronicling the story as they happen (e.g. a mail fraud scam that he called out in 2011 and has been writing about for six years), with digestible non-lawyer-accessible explanations of things that are important or not-as-non-lawyers-might-expect. I'm sure he has a bias, politically or ideologically, but I'm not sure I could articulate what it is. I like reading just about everything he writes.
- heartbreak 9y ago
  Popehat remarked in his Papadopouslos Lawsplainer [0] today that had Papadopoulos not talked to the FBI back in January, he wouldn't be in the position he's in now. [0] https://www.popehat.com/2017/10/30/lawsplainer-the-george-papadopoulos-guilty-plea/ https://www.popehat.com/2017/10/30/lawsplainer-the-george-pa...

philipov 9y ago

Why is there no mention of the manafort indictment on the front page? It seems like there's something blocking all posts about this...

burkaman 9y ago
People really hate politics here. I would guess it's just organic flagging, nothing sinister.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  It's also the sort of TV news that the guidelines recommend against. There's really not that much to discuss, pretty much just speculation about where it all ends up.
  - heartbreak 9y ago
    Oh good heavens there's plenty to discuss: http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/sites/dcd/files/17-mc-2336_MEM_OP_REDACTED%20FOR%20UNSEALING_20171030.pdf http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/sites/dcd/files/17-mc-2336_MEM_O...
    - zie 9y ago
      Having just read this, it seems to say the Special Prosecutor very directly says President Trump at the very least knowingly lied to the US Govt. about his relationships with Ukraine. Is that your understanding as well?
      - heartbreak 9y ago
        Yes I also think it’s incredible that the court was convinced by redacted evidence to allow Mueller to question Target A and Target B’s attorney.
AlexandrB 9y ago
From HN's posting guidelines: > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. While this makes sense since this is not a political forum, I think the HN mods enforce this to a fault. Some political events are definitely big enough to warrant attention here.

michaelchisari 9y ago

Big stuff, but the George Papadopoulos plea deal may be the bigger story.

IgorPartola 9y ago
It seems like Papadopoulos is small fish here that will be used to get incriminating info on larger targets. He also confirms that this isn't just about taxes and money laundering when it comes to Manafort. And my guess is that Manafort isn't the final target of the investigation either.
SloopJon 9y ago
Popehat has a separate "Lawsplainer" post on that: https://www.popehat.com/2017/10/30/lawsplainer-the-george-papadopoulos-guilty-plea/ https://www.popehat.com/2017/10/30/lawsplainer-the-george-pa...

Overtonwindow 9y ago

As a lobbyist in DC I think an interest facet glazed over by many is the FARA filings. FARA, the Foreign Agents Registration Act, is similar to the law which requires lobbyists (like me) to register with Congress. It tells the government who you are, whom you're lobbying for, money, etc. FARA is rarely enforced, and LDA enforcement is almost nonexistent. Both carry stiff penalties, but I see LDA and FARA enforcement as this extra thing that if you really want to stick it to someone, charge them with failing to file. I know many, many, MANY companies, nonprofits (especially), and other organizations, that flagrantly violate the LDA laws without worry. Unless you're caught on something else, few pay attention, and few in the beltway care. It's time LDAs and FARA filings are enforced, investigated, and those that violate the law, charged.

Sangermaine 9y ago
Mueller is hitting Manafort with everything to provide maximum leverage to flip him. I just hope Mueller has considered bringing state charges somewhere if possible, because there is a very real chance Trump will try to use the pardon power to get out of this.