4 ms·

I'm hosting my own mail, and running my own server, but I know this is not a viable route for the generic public. Although tools like Yunohost[1] exists for thi

by pmlnr 9y ago

I'm hosting my own mail, and running my own server, but I know this is not a viable route for the generic public. Although tools like Yunohost[1] exists for this specific reason. Telegram is nice for instant messaging: it's simple, cross-platform, does well with resources, and run by a non-profit org. Yes, russians might be spying on it. FB/G are spied by others. Meh. (There's Signal as well, but I like my SMS separated.) Google Docs are terrible anyway: slow, lacking lots of features. Libreoffice or (god forbid!), installed M$ Office - and share the docs on, for example, Dropbox. However, it's already very hard to tell people what the web used to be. Just read the entry "I’m 22 years old and what is this."[2] - web devs being in the business for <10 years may not even remember how it was before G or FB. I'd welcome any ideas how to address this. [1]: https://yunohost.org/ https://yunohost.org/ [2]: https://medium.com/@tylrfishr/im-22-years-old-and-what-is-this-d73c2573c254 https://medium.com/@tylrfishr/im-22-years-old-and-what-is-th...

pascalxus 9y ago
But, with telegram, I don't see a way to message people on FB messenger. so that means, I'll need to get them to switch: tough sell.
- pmlnr 9y ago
  I'm aware. If you mention though, that this doesn't suck their battery (or listen in to their conversation) they might think about it, though I'm having a hard time making people care as well.
- rhizome 9y ago
  Someday someone's gonna make a IM <-> FB gateway.
  - bobalob_wtf 9y ago
    Unfortunately FB will then change the API to block the gateway. It's not in their interest to allow open access to their messaging service. The current status quo means you have to be in their app or on the website to access your contacts and view their ads!
    - rhizome 9y ago
      Absolutely, but it doesn't mean the arms race will never start. :)
sevenfive 9y ago
Most people who use telegram haven't heard of Signal, most people who use Signal won't touch telegram with a ten foot pole.
wongarsu 9y ago
I pay about $1/month for a decent email provider. There is also still free ad-supported competition out there. That's not the problem why people are all at gmail. The bigger hurdle are the email clients. Both on desktop, android and as webmail, email clients are mostly fairly bad (as in: just as good as the one I had nearly twenty years ago). It's hard to keep up with Gmails UX and features, especially since open source software isn't exactly known for stellar UX.
- KozmoNau7 9y ago
  I have to agree on this. I have yet to find an email client that works as elegantly as Inbox (which is obviously Gmail-exlusive). I have been considering migrating away from Gmail, but it is a bit daunting, mostly due to all of the logins I will need to update (if that is even possible) and because I would have to go back to manual sorting and categorizing.
  - hopesthoughts 9y ago
    I just recently completed migration from Gmail. It does take a while because there are so many things you might forget to update and then you're like, "oh crap," I changed my email address and for some strange reason LastPass didn't store the password.
the_common_man 9y ago
Yup, I self-host email, blog and all my stuff except with Cloudron [1]. I use wire instead of telegram. One challenge (at least amongst my circles) is that people do not seem to value diversity and are for some reason obsessed with mono-culture. For example, they are not willing to try another docs or email or phone provider. Even if they try something new, they are quick to jump to opinions in mere seconds (for example, I asked a friend to try mattermost[2] instead of slack and he wanted to go on about how the shade of blue was unappealing...). Many of my friends are also truly vested into converting their entire household into apple or google products (i.e one of them). If apple made a mattress tomorrow, they would immediately buy it :) [1]: https://cloudron.io https://cloudron.io [2]: https://about.mattermost.com/ https://about.mattermost.com/
- xj9 9y ago
  i think what we need is another type of walled garden, what i'm calling a freedom garden. a complete alternative to APPL and GOOG that has media, devices, apps, &c. free software projects and linux distributions have been around for years, but the focus is often on compatibility and familiarity. i say, we throw all of that in the trash. we need fresh ideas, fresh designs, and interfaces. interesting new devices and interaction models. app stores that engage creators as a revenue channel. there's no reason why liberty and profit should be at odds. [0] i especially think that we need to rethink how we develop applications. clouds are useful, but why are the developers on the hook for all of that compute? i think we need to radically simplify the tools we use for provisioning compute resources in a way that allows users to leverage all of their compute resources and easily attach more on-demand. this echoes back to plan 9, which has this idea of creating a virtual system out of many hosts. we're just getting started, and there are a lot of challenges ahead of us. if any of this sounds interesting or fun, maybe you want to get involved with our nonsense. [1] [0]: https://developer.elementary.io/ https://developer.elementary.io/ [1]: https://heropunch.io/join.html https://heropunch.io/join.html
  - cutler 9y ago
    It's not about applications, it's about hardware. The corporate giants control the mobile hardware.
cutler 9y ago
I hosted my own mailserver for years then at about the same time email to Outlook.com and GMail started to bounce due to blacklisting. I complied with all the SPF requirements but no luck. Turns out you can be blacklisted by simply being on the same network as another blacklisted server. Guilt by association. Try getting a human response from these faceless corporate giants.
- eikenberry 9y ago
  Neither of those services blacklist based on bad netblock neighbors anymore. The only one I've seen to that in years is AT&T, and it has only been a problem with them sporadically.

by pmlnr 9y ago

pascalxus 9y ago

But, with telegram, I don't see a way to message people on FB messenger. so that means, I'll need to get them to switch: tough sell.

pmlnr 9y ago
I'm aware. If you mention though, that this doesn't suck their battery (or listen in to their conversation) they might think about it, though I'm having a hard time making people care as well.
rhizome 9y ago
Someday someone's gonna make a IM <-> FB gateway.
- bobalob_wtf 9y ago
  Unfortunately FB will then change the API to block the gateway. It's not in their interest to allow open access to their messaging service. The current status quo means you have to be in their app or on the website to access your contacts and view their ads!
  - rhizome 9y ago
    Absolutely, but it doesn't mean the arms race will never start. :)

sevenfive 9y ago

Most people who use telegram haven't heard of Signal, most people who use Signal won't touch telegram with a ten foot pole.

wongarsu 9y ago

I pay about $1/month for a decent email provider. There is also still free ad-supported competition out there. That's not the problem why people are all at gmail. The bigger hurdle are the email clients. Both on desktop, android and as webmail, email clients are mostly fairly bad (as in: just as good as the one I had nearly twenty years ago). It's hard to keep up with Gmails UX and features, especially since open source software isn't exactly known for stellar UX.

KozmoNau7 9y ago
I have to agree on this. I have yet to find an email client that works as elegantly as Inbox (which is obviously Gmail-exlusive). I have been considering migrating away from Gmail, but it is a bit daunting, mostly due to all of the logins I will need to update (if that is even possible) and because I would have to go back to manual sorting and categorizing.
- hopesthoughts 9y ago
  I just recently completed migration from Gmail. It does take a while because there are so many things you might forget to update and then you're like, "oh crap," I changed my email address and for some strange reason LastPass didn't store the password.

the_common_man 9y ago

Yup, I self-host email, blog and all my stuff except with Cloudron [1]. I use wire instead of telegram. One challenge (at least amongst my circles) is that people do not seem to value diversity and are for some reason obsessed with mono-culture. For example, they are not willing to try another docs or email or phone provider. Even if they try something new, they are quick to jump to opinions in mere seconds (for example, I asked a friend to try mattermost[2] instead of slack and he wanted to go on about how the shade of blue was unappealing...). Many of my friends are also truly vested into converting their entire household into apple or google products (i.e one of them). If apple made a mattress tomorrow, they would immediately buy it :) [1]: https://cloudron.io https://cloudron.io [2]: https://about.mattermost.com/ https://about.mattermost.com/

xj9 9y ago
i think what we need is another type of walled garden, what i'm calling a freedom garden. a complete alternative to APPL and GOOG that has media, devices, apps, &c. free software projects and linux distributions have been around for years, but the focus is often on compatibility and familiarity. i say, we throw all of that in the trash. we need fresh ideas, fresh designs, and interfaces. interesting new devices and interaction models. app stores that engage creators as a revenue channel. there's no reason why liberty and profit should be at odds. [0] i especially think that we need to rethink how we develop applications. clouds are useful, but why are the developers on the hook for all of that compute? i think we need to radically simplify the tools we use for provisioning compute resources in a way that allows users to leverage all of their compute resources and easily attach more on-demand. this echoes back to plan 9, which has this idea of creating a virtual system out of many hosts. we're just getting started, and there are a lot of challenges ahead of us. if any of this sounds interesting or fun, maybe you want to get involved with our nonsense. [1] [0]: https://developer.elementary.io/ https://developer.elementary.io/ [1]: https://heropunch.io/join.html https://heropunch.io/join.html
- cutler 9y ago
  It's not about applications, it's about hardware. The corporate giants control the mobile hardware.

cutler 9y ago

I hosted my own mailserver for years then at about the same time email to Outlook.com and GMail started to bounce due to blacklisting. I complied with all the SPF requirements but no luck. Turns out you can be blacklisted by simply being on the same network as another blacklisted server. Guilt by association. Try getting a human response from these faceless corporate giants.

eikenberry 9y ago
Neither of those services blacklist based on bad netblock neighbors anymore. The only one I've seen to that in years is AT&T, and it has only been a problem with them sporadically.