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> The engineering break through will be when we have a scripting/evolving system that can be more easily distilled into sealed systems. So people poking around

> The engineering break through will be when we have a scripting/evolving system that can be more easily distilled into sealed systems. So people poking around in a spreadsheet will be able to turn that into a reliable application. Yeah, I see that as a likely evolution as well. In some ways, an IDE is already an exploratory system with a focus on delivering a sealed system - the final compiled software represented by the source code. I believe this combination is what made IDEs so successful and universally desirable, and future programmable environments should share these traits. Auto-completion, refactoring and code-browsing tools support the exploratory work. The problem is that IDEs are not so good at exploration as a REPL because they're unable to store intermediate results and states. TDD could then be seen as an ad-hoc way to store such intermediate state.

shalabhc 9y ago
Agree on the benefits of IDEs and REPLs. An IDE/language with integrated notebook-style REPLs might be useful too. Maybe you want to create parts of the system by interacting with a REPL (instead of writing a static block of text) - and then you'd want to record how you created this specific artifact. The other thing that would help, and my personal wish, is better simulation and the ability to see indirect effects of changes - instead of only showing what is directly modified (i.e. a line of code) and leaving the simulation up to the human.
- TuringTest 9y ago
  > Maybe you want to create parts of the system by interacting with a REPL (instead of writing a static block of text) - and then you'd want to record how you created this specific artifact. Yes, exactly. You get that with a REPL (e.g. Lisp or Python) and copy-pasting to the source code files, but it's far from ideal. > The other thing that would help, and my personal wish, is better simulation and the ability to see indirect effects of changes So, sort like explorable explanations[1][2], but aimed at developing a new model and not just exploring one that has been already made? That's what I'd like to see, too. [1] http://worrydream.com/ExplorableExplanations/ http://worrydream.com/ExplorableExplanations/ [2] http://worrydream.com/TenBrighterIdeas/ http://worrydream.com/TenBrighterIdeas/
  - shalabhc 9y ago
    Yes, somewhat like these, but having the ability to inspect and simulate effects on intermediate forms and systems. So something along the lines of light table but being able to show more than just the immediate program. Copying something I wrote in another thread: I want to see not just the immediate program I'm manipulating (text or otherwise) but also the implications - the affected parts of various other intermediate representations all the way to the running, live system that will be affected.

shalabhc 9y ago

Agree on the benefits of IDEs and REPLs. An IDE/language with integrated notebook-style REPLs might be useful too. Maybe you want to create parts of the system by interacting with a REPL (instead of writing a static block of text) - and then you'd want to record how you created this specific artifact. The other thing that would help, and my personal wish, is better simulation and the ability to see indirect effects of changes - instead of only showing what is directly modified (i.e. a line of code) and leaving the simulation up to the human.

TuringTest 9y ago
> Maybe you want to create parts of the system by interacting with a REPL (instead of writing a static block of text) - and then you'd want to record how you created this specific artifact. Yes, exactly. You get that with a REPL (e.g. Lisp or Python) and copy-pasting to the source code files, but it's far from ideal. > The other thing that would help, and my personal wish, is better simulation and the ability to see indirect effects of changes So, sort like explorable explanations[1][2], but aimed at developing a new model and not just exploring one that has been already made? That's what I'd like to see, too. [1] http://worrydream.com/ExplorableExplanations/ http://worrydream.com/ExplorableExplanations/ [2] http://worrydream.com/TenBrighterIdeas/ http://worrydream.com/TenBrighterIdeas/
- shalabhc 9y ago
  Yes, somewhat like these, but having the ability to inspect and simulate effects on intermediate forms and systems. So something along the lines of light table but being able to show more than just the immediate program. Copying something I wrote in another thread: I want to see not just the immediate program I'm manipulating (text or otherwise) but also the implications - the affected parts of various other intermediate representations all the way to the running, live system that will be affected.