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Why is TouchID superior to FaceID? I just want to understand why you think FaceID is a failure? If FaceID lives up to Apples claims it will have less friction

by gehsty 9y ago

Why is TouchID superior to FaceID? I just want to understand why you think FaceID is a failure? If FaceID lives up to Apples claims it will have less friction and higher security, so win win, and I'm sure Apple are aware of how popular TouchID is, I don't see them replacing it with a dud.

dogma1138 9y ago
Because it can be unlocked in your pocket for SOS use cases. Because it can be unlocked under the table or at a very low angle to be used in places such as a restaurant, meeting room, theater etc. Because one can use TouchID for Apple Pay much quicker and more reliably in a crowded/rushed situation such as paying for public transport. Becuase TouchID actually allows multiple users on the same device if if that is not an intended feature. The list can go on....
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  > Because one can use TouchID for Apple Pay much quicker and more reliably Until people actually have the phones in their hands, how can you claim this?
- PacketPaul 9y ago
  But in reality how many times do you unlock your phone and not look at it?
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    I do it constantly i also unlock it at very odd angles all the time from when sitting on the toilet to when sleeping to not wake my SO up.
- solidr53 9y ago
  Ok, you unlock in your pocket for SOS, what then? You can't see what you are doing anyway.
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    I can quite reliably send a text or make a call from a pocket, but fine switch a pocket to a purse....
    - glhaynes 9y ago
      If you can send a text reliably from your pocket (something I've never even heard of anybody attempting), you can unlock it with the 6-digit passcode reliably.
- gehsty 9y ago
  There are edge use cases, I think 99% of the time your interaction will have less friction and more security. For the edge cases generally a pass code will work (under the table / multiple users). I'm not sure what you do with your phone unlocked in your pocket... TouchID being quicker is your opinion, and as neither of us (I assume) have used it, we'll see if it is quicker. I just think there were lots of negativity about TouchID when it was announced, and look how successful that is, would Apple risk that success? I don't think so...
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    Edge cases are the most important ones to consider when talking about usability since all other cases are irrelevant.
    - gehsty 9y ago
      The least used interactions are the most important? Really? I would say the opposite, the interactions that the most users use the most often are the most important.
      - dogma1138 9y ago
        Edge cases are not the least used interactions, and even if they are it's not what makes them edge cases. Edge cases are defined as what happens at the edge of operating parameters the classic example of a speaker that is played at the bottom or top 10% of it's output, edge cases do not have an intrinsic definition of occurrence rarity. It might not relevant to you, but if you like blowing up your house with all that bass or you have very thin walls and you have to listen to music very quietly then these are still edge cases but they are not rare cases for you. In reality and in practice edge cases are pretty much anything that goes out of the (pretty narrow) definition of how a device or a service should be used (the classical remark of "you are holding the iphone wrong" comes to mind). On your daily usability the edge cases are also much more important for the general satisfaction and subjective usability values of the device. When you are in a perfect position/condition to use your phone the environmental conditions overcome any design flaws, and you experience pretty normal usability. When you say hold the phone on the floor by your bed to avoid the light creeping all over the room, under the table during a meeting, or as close to the floor when possible at a theater is when the flaws in usability start being apparent. That's when things like the placement of the fingerprint reader (or lack there of), weight, size, screen readability at low brightness and odd angles start to become more and more relevant. Same goes for other things, you don't care about how much leg room there is in the back of your car until you need to fit 5 people over the weekend, despite you using it more times solo during the work week.
- madeofpalk 9y ago
  Sure. TouchID can't be used if your fingers are wet or wrinkly. Since I found out about FaceID I've noticed a bunch of scenarios where TouchID falls short and I have to drastically change how I'm using the phone or what I'm doing to accomodate unlocking using a specific finger. > Because one can use TouchID for Apple Pay much quicker and more reliably in a crowded/rushed situation such as paying for public transport. Since moving to the UK I was keen to give Apple Pay a try on the tube and I was disgusted at how slow it is. I think mobile-based contactless options are always going to be slower than passive card-based contactless.
  - com2kid 9y ago
    > Since moving to the UK I was keen to give Apple Pay a try on the tube and I was disgusted at how slow it is. I noticed this as well. Android pay is rock solid, Apple Pay required a few tries to work right. It could just be an implementation detail of the Tube's readers. Or it could be the case on the phone, or it could actually be the phone, but there was a difference.
  - wtetzner 9y ago
    > Sure. TouchID can't be used if your fingers are wet or wrinkly. Sounds like a reason to improve the tech behind TouchID.
    - madeofpalk 9y ago
      TouchID doesn’t work with gloves.
      - wtetzner 9y ago
        Is there some reason TouchID and FaceID can't both exist? They clearly cover a different set of situations, so wouldn't it be best to have both?
- baby 9y ago
  > Because it can be unlocked in your pocket for SOS use cases. I will constantly downvote comments that make this point because unlocking your phone in your pocket is not a feature, it's a painpoint. > Because it can be unlocked under the table or at a very low angle to be used in places such as a restaurant, meeting room, theater etc. Do you use your phone without looking at your phone? Back when phones had buttons perhaps, but on tactile device this is almost impossible. > Becuase TouchID actually allows multiple users on the same device if if that is not an intended feature. wat
- mancerayder 9y ago
  ... because it's dark and facial recognition is going to be problematic without an external light source. Or am I off-base?
  - otoburb 9y ago
    "Face ID works by projecting more than 30,000 infrared dots onto a face and producing a 3D facial map."[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_ID https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_ID
- ianamartin 9y ago
  SOS functionality is baked in by pressing combinations of the side buttons. Way more realizable than pocket texting. You’re not fooling anyone in meetings or at restaurants by using your phone under the table. We know you’re doing stuff with your phone. Everyone knows. Still, if you want to pretend to be slick, use the passcode. You have no idea if faceid will be slower than Touch ID. You have no idea if faceid will limit the phone to just one user. You’re out on some pretty weak limbs with this list of nothingburgers that goes on.

by gehsty 9y ago

dogma1138 9y ago

Because it can be unlocked in your pocket for SOS use cases. Because it can be unlocked under the table or at a very low angle to be used in places such as a restaurant, meeting room, theater etc. Because one can use TouchID for Apple Pay much quicker and more reliably in a crowded/rushed situation such as paying for public transport. Becuase TouchID actually allows multiple users on the same device if if that is not an intended feature. The list can go on....

zimpenfish 9y ago
> Because one can use TouchID for Apple Pay much quicker and more reliably Until people actually have the phones in their hands, how can you claim this?
PacketPaul 9y ago
But in reality how many times do you unlock your phone and not look at it?
- dogma1138 9y ago
  I do it constantly i also unlock it at very odd angles all the time from when sitting on the toilet to when sleeping to not wake my SO up.
solidr53 9y ago
Ok, you unlock in your pocket for SOS, what then? You can't see what you are doing anyway.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  I can quite reliably send a text or make a call from a pocket, but fine switch a pocket to a purse....
  - glhaynes 9y ago
    If you can send a text reliably from your pocket (something I've never even heard of anybody attempting), you can unlock it with the 6-digit passcode reliably.
gehsty 9y ago
There are edge use cases, I think 99% of the time your interaction will have less friction and more security. For the edge cases generally a pass code will work (under the table / multiple users). I'm not sure what you do with your phone unlocked in your pocket... TouchID being quicker is your opinion, and as neither of us (I assume) have used it, we'll see if it is quicker. I just think there were lots of negativity about TouchID when it was announced, and look how successful that is, would Apple risk that success? I don't think so...
- dogma1138 9y ago
  Edge cases are the most important ones to consider when talking about usability since all other cases are irrelevant.
  - gehsty 9y ago
    The least used interactions are the most important? Really? I would say the opposite, the interactions that the most users use the most often are the most important.
    - dogma1138 9y ago
      Edge cases are not the least used interactions, and even if they are it's not what makes them edge cases. Edge cases are defined as what happens at the edge of operating parameters the classic example of a speaker that is played at the bottom or top 10% of it's output, edge cases do not have an intrinsic definition of occurrence rarity. It might not relevant to you, but if you like blowing up your house with all that bass or you have very thin walls and you have to listen to music very quietly then these are still edge cases but they are not rare cases for you. In reality and in practice edge cases are pretty much anything that goes out of the (pretty narrow) definition of how a device or a service should be used (the classical remark of "you are holding the iphone wrong" comes to mind). On your daily usability the edge cases are also much more important for the general satisfaction and subjective usability values of the device. When you are in a perfect position/condition to use your phone the environmental conditions overcome any design flaws, and you experience pretty normal usability. When you say hold the phone on the floor by your bed to avoid the light creeping all over the room, under the table during a meeting, or as close to the floor when possible at a theater is when the flaws in usability start being apparent. That's when things like the placement of the fingerprint reader (or lack there of), weight, size, screen readability at low brightness and odd angles start to become more and more relevant. Same goes for other things, you don't care about how much leg room there is in the back of your car until you need to fit 5 people over the weekend, despite you using it more times solo during the work week.
madeofpalk 9y ago
Sure. TouchID can't be used if your fingers are wet or wrinkly. Since I found out about FaceID I've noticed a bunch of scenarios where TouchID falls short and I have to drastically change how I'm using the phone or what I'm doing to accomodate unlocking using a specific finger. > Because one can use TouchID for Apple Pay much quicker and more reliably in a crowded/rushed situation such as paying for public transport. Since moving to the UK I was keen to give Apple Pay a try on the tube and I was disgusted at how slow it is. I think mobile-based contactless options are always going to be slower than passive card-based contactless.
- com2kid 9y ago
  > Since moving to the UK I was keen to give Apple Pay a try on the tube and I was disgusted at how slow it is. I noticed this as well. Android pay is rock solid, Apple Pay required a few tries to work right. It could just be an implementation detail of the Tube's readers. Or it could be the case on the phone, or it could actually be the phone, but there was a difference.
- wtetzner 9y ago
  > Sure. TouchID can't be used if your fingers are wet or wrinkly. Sounds like a reason to improve the tech behind TouchID.
  - madeofpalk 9y ago
    TouchID doesn’t work with gloves.
    - wtetzner 9y ago
      Is there some reason TouchID and FaceID can't both exist? They clearly cover a different set of situations, so wouldn't it be best to have both?
baby 9y ago
> Because it can be unlocked in your pocket for SOS use cases. I will constantly downvote comments that make this point because unlocking your phone in your pocket is not a feature, it's a painpoint. > Because it can be unlocked under the table or at a very low angle to be used in places such as a restaurant, meeting room, theater etc. Do you use your phone without looking at your phone? Back when phones had buttons perhaps, but on tactile device this is almost impossible. > Becuase TouchID actually allows multiple users on the same device if if that is not an intended feature. wat
mancerayder 9y ago
... because it's dark and facial recognition is going to be problematic without an external light source. Or am I off-base?
- otoburb 9y ago
  "Face ID works by projecting more than 30,000 infrared dots onto a face and producing a 3D facial map."[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_ID https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_ID
ianamartin 9y ago
SOS functionality is baked in by pressing combinations of the side buttons. Way more realizable than pocket texting. You’re not fooling anyone in meetings or at restaurants by using your phone under the table. We know you’re doing stuff with your phone. Everyone knows. Still, if you want to pretend to be slick, use the passcode. You have no idea if faceid will be slower than Touch ID. You have no idea if faceid will limit the phone to just one user. You’re out on some pretty weak limbs with this list of nothingburgers that goes on.