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TLDR The future of programming languages should involve not naming your language "Coq". I know I am going through the lowest common denominator, but how do you

TLDR The future of programming languages should involve not naming your language "Coq". I know I am going through the lowest common denominator, but how do you explain to your boss that you're proficient with using Coq. Ugh. Or professor, since apparently it's a proofing language for academia.

davemp 9y ago
It gets really bad when you're using "Hoare Logic" in "Coq"
tdb7893 9y ago
I would just pronounce it like "coke" and it would just sidestep the whole pronunciation issue. I'm not sure how most people pronounce it but that's what I would do to talk to my boss about it.
- logicchains 9y ago
  I refer to it as "the See Oh Queue theorem proover" at work, which seems to get the idea across.
- taneq 9y ago
  This is the precise reason why "route" is pronouced "root" but "router" is mysteriously pronounced "raow-ter". No-one's gonna stand in front of a room full of people and talk about the "rooter".
  - polymeris 9y ago
    Huh, TIL. As a non-native English speaker, I have always pronounced "route" as "raowt", probably influenced by the pronunciation of "router". Btw, why is it "pronUnciation", but "pronOUced". English is hard.
    - jamesrcole 9y ago
      > Btw, why is it "pronUnciation", but "pronOUced" In Australian English, it is "pronOUNCiation"
      - tome 9y ago
        A quick Google didn't supply any supporting evidence. Do you know of a reference?
        jamesrcole 9y ago
        That that's how it's pronounced in Australia? I don't know of any specific reference, it's just what I know from being familiar with Australian pronounciation (it's where I was born and live). BTW, in case there has been some confusion here, since the topic was how things were said, I have been assuming this is what the person I was replying to was talking about, not spelling.
        tome 9y ago
        Ah thanks, I thought you were saying it was spelled with "ou".
  - grzm 9y ago
    > "This is the precise reason why "route" is pronouced "root" Actually, this varies with dialect. Route can be pronounced either way: |ˈrüt| or |ˈrau̇t| https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/route https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/route https://www4.uwm.edu/FLL/linguistics/dialect/staticmaps/q_26.html https://www4.uwm.edu/FLL/linguistics/dialect/staticmaps/q_26...
- quickthrower2 9y ago
  "I'm a coke user boss, have you ever tried it? If I have a hard problem it really focuses the mind."
- dllthomas 9y ago
  My favorite quote on the topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10728995 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10728995
thomasfoster96 9y ago
Wait, it isn’t pronounced ‘cog’?
- mitchty 9y ago
  No, /kɔk/ https://youtu.be/bIraCzL3dtI?t=4 https://youtu.be/bIraCzL3dtI?t=4 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/coq https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/coq
GuiA 9y ago
"Coq" means "Rooster" in French. Coq (the software) started development at INRIA (France) in 1984 as a small R&D project. I am not particularly shocked that the original developers did not realize the possible double meaning in another language, and being as dismissive as you are seems uncalled for. There are countless startups whose names in English mean something else entirely in another language. For example "Cocu Social", a cooking startup, whose name in French would mean "gregarious cuckold".
- kbutler 9y ago
  ...and transliterations into new languages are a fine time for some mispronunciation, like the famous Coca-Cola search for a good Chinese transliteration ("let the mouth rejoice" doesn't sound exactly like English "Coca-Cola", but it's a better brand than "bite the wax tadpole" https://www.snopes.com/cokelore/tadpole.asp https://www.snopes.com/cokelore/tadpole.asp )
- jamesrcole 9y ago
  > I am not particularly shocked that the original developers did not realize the possible double meaning in another language Most French people seem to know English quite well, so I would expect they'd be aware of it. Not saying I know this is true for sure, though.
- samth 9y ago
  The original developers include Thierry Coquand. Also there's a tradition of naming theorem provers after birds (that might have started with Coq though). But they definitely knew that this pun was there.
  - theaeolist 9y ago
    .. and it is based on a type theory known as the Calculus of Constructions (CoC).
- dvhh 9y ago
  I think the verge, could be translated from french as the rod ( and often used as a slang for this rod ).
dr-manhattan 9y ago
do they code coq on uranus?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
jamesrcole 9y ago
I don't think the parent comment deserves all the downvotes. For programming languages, popularity is crucial. Making them easy to implement, having the compilers as widely available as possible, having the most number of developers pick up the language, etc. That's effectively the thesis of the famous "Worse is Better" essay [1]. As trivial as a name may seem, you're really shooting yourself in the foot if it's something that's awkward to say out loud in a lot of contexts. Workarounds, like pronouncing it differently (as suggested elsehwere in this thread) aren't good solutions, as they hamper communication. Unless the language is already very popular, how do you ensure that everyone else is familiar with the non-standard pronounciation? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better
quickthrower2 9y ago
Hopefully you have a mature boss. Does he let you use git? (Git is a mild insult in the UK)
rurban 9y ago
Same problem as with nimrod. Now as Nim it works better.

davemp 9y ago

It gets really bad when you're using "Hoare Logic" in "Coq"

tdb7893 9y ago

I would just pronounce it like "coke" and it would just sidestep the whole pronunciation issue. I'm not sure how most people pronounce it but that's what I would do to talk to my boss about it.

logicchains 9y ago
I refer to it as "the See Oh Queue theorem proover" at work, which seems to get the idea across.
taneq 9y ago
This is the precise reason why "route" is pronouced "root" but "router" is mysteriously pronounced "raow-ter". No-one's gonna stand in front of a room full of people and talk about the "rooter".
- polymeris 9y ago
  Huh, TIL. As a non-native English speaker, I have always pronounced "route" as "raowt", probably influenced by the pronunciation of "router". Btw, why is it "pronUnciation", but "pronOUced". English is hard.
  - jamesrcole 9y ago
    > Btw, why is it "pronUnciation", but "pronOUced" In Australian English, it is "pronOUNCiation"
    - tome 9y ago
      A quick Google didn't supply any supporting evidence. Do you know of a reference?
      - jamesrcole 9y ago
        That that's how it's pronounced in Australia? I don't know of any specific reference, it's just what I know from being familiar with Australian pronounciation (it's where I was born and live). BTW, in case there has been some confusion here, since the topic was how things were said, I have been assuming this is what the person I was replying to was talking about, not spelling.
        tome 9y ago
        Ah thanks, I thought you were saying it was spelled with "ou".
- grzm 9y ago
  > "This is the precise reason why "route" is pronouced "root" Actually, this varies with dialect. Route can be pronounced either way: |ˈrüt| or |ˈrau̇t| https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/route https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/route https://www4.uwm.edu/FLL/linguistics/dialect/staticmaps/q_26.html https://www4.uwm.edu/FLL/linguistics/dialect/staticmaps/q_26...
quickthrower2 9y ago
"I'm a coke user boss, have you ever tried it? If I have a hard problem it really focuses the mind."
dllthomas 9y ago
My favorite quote on the topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10728995 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10728995

thomasfoster96 9y ago

Wait, it isn’t pronounced ‘cog’?

mitchty 9y ago
No, /kɔk/ https://youtu.be/bIraCzL3dtI?t=4 https://youtu.be/bIraCzL3dtI?t=4 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/coq https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/coq

GuiA 9y ago

"Coq" means "Rooster" in French. Coq (the software) started development at INRIA (France) in 1984 as a small R&D project. I am not particularly shocked that the original developers did not realize the possible double meaning in another language, and being as dismissive as you are seems uncalled for. There are countless startups whose names in English mean something else entirely in another language. For example "Cocu Social", a cooking startup, whose name in French would mean "gregarious cuckold".

kbutler 9y ago
...and transliterations into new languages are a fine time for some mispronunciation, like the famous Coca-Cola search for a good Chinese transliteration ("let the mouth rejoice" doesn't sound exactly like English "Coca-Cola", but it's a better brand than "bite the wax tadpole" https://www.snopes.com/cokelore/tadpole.asp https://www.snopes.com/cokelore/tadpole.asp )
jamesrcole 9y ago
> I am not particularly shocked that the original developers did not realize the possible double meaning in another language Most French people seem to know English quite well, so I would expect they'd be aware of it. Not saying I know this is true for sure, though.
samth 9y ago
The original developers include Thierry Coquand. Also there's a tradition of naming theorem provers after birds (that might have started with Coq though). But they definitely knew that this pun was there.
- theaeolist 9y ago
  .. and it is based on a type theory known as the Calculus of Constructions (CoC).
dvhh 9y ago
I think the verge, could be translated from french as the rod ( and often used as a slang for this rod ).

dr-manhattan 9y ago

do they code coq on uranus?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

jamesrcole 9y ago

I don't think the parent comment deserves all the downvotes. For programming languages, popularity is crucial. Making them easy to implement, having the compilers as widely available as possible, having the most number of developers pick up the language, etc. That's effectively the thesis of the famous "Worse is Better" essay [1]. As trivial as a name may seem, you're really shooting yourself in the foot if it's something that's awkward to say out loud in a lot of contexts. Workarounds, like pronouncing it differently (as suggested elsehwere in this thread) aren't good solutions, as they hamper communication. Unless the language is already very popular, how do you ensure that everyone else is familiar with the non-standard pronounciation? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better

quickthrower2 9y ago

Hopefully you have a mature boss. Does he let you use git? (Git is a mild insult in the UK)

rurban 9y ago

Same problem as with nimrod. Now as Nim it works better.