6 ms·

“I don’t need anything more than the free Facebook plan. If a new startup creates something FB will just copy it and I’ll soon have it for free anyway” -future

by kirykl 9y ago

“I don’t need anything more than the free Facebook plan. If a new startup creates something FB will just copy it and I’ll soon have it for free anyway” -future internet user logic

saas_co_de 9y ago
If a user can get FB services for free and can't afford internet otherwise is it better for them to have no internet at all?
- JoshMnem 9y ago
  Yes -- otherwise they are squandering their long term Internet freedom for short term access to addicting garbage (Facebook).
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - return0 9y ago
    jesus that's judgemental.
    - andrepd 9y ago
      It's also a fact (Facebook is literally addictive).
      - return0 9y ago
        like almost everything (including HN, trust me, i ve been there)
    - JoshMnem 9y ago
      Here is some information: * http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/12161461/Facebook-addiction-activates-same-part-of-the-brain-as-cocaine.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/12161461/Facebook-addiction-... * http://www.salimvirani.com/facebook/ http://www.salimvirani.com/facebook/ * https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2012/04/05/the-true-costs-of-facebook-addiction-low-self-esteem-and-poor-body-image/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2012/04/05/the-tru... * https://www.wired.com/story/our-minds-have-been-hijacked-by-our-phones-tristan-harris-wants-to-rescue-them/ https://www.wired.com/story/our-minds-have-been-hijacked-by-... * https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609104/smartphones-are-weapons-of-mass-manipulation-and-this-guy-is-declaring-war-on-them/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609104/smartphones-are-we... * https://journal.thriveglobal.com/how-technology-hijacks-peoples-minds-from-a-magician-and-google-s-design-ethicist-56d62ef5edf3 https://journal.thriveglobal.com/how-technology-hijacks-peop... * https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/11/the-binge-breaker/501122/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/11/the-bin... * https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/25/facebook-orwellian-journalists-democracy-guatemala-slovakia https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/25/facebook-... More things are happening in real life, email/telephone, newspapers, magazines, and in books than on Facebook. I think that Facebook is bad for the human mind and bad for society.
      - return0 9y ago
        I 'm not disputing that facebook is an addiction (like many things in life). But there is a big chunk of users who learned to use the internet SOLELY for facebook, they remain there solely for that and would stop using it if it wasn't for facebook. Having the freedom to research any topic, while sounding noble as a thing, is just not something that a lot of people want to do.
        exergy 9y ago
        You're missing the point. Why should we regress? The system, as it exists, freely allows these fabled old people of yours to access Facebook. But in letting net neutrality evaporate, the rest of us get screwed for no benefit. Jesus, net neutrality makes my blood boil. Fuck Ajit Pai, that /r/punchablefaces wanker extraordinaire.
        return0 9y ago
        maybe if your blood didn't boil you could make some rational arguments.
        JoshMnem 9y ago
        > But there is a big chunk of users who learned to use the internet SOLELY for facebook, they remain there solely for that and would stop using it if it wasn't for facebook. I'd argue that it would be better in most cases not to use the Internet if Facebook were the only option. Accepting Facebook as your "Internet" means that the next generations probably will not have a Free, open Internet. I grew up before the Internet was widely used. Many aspects of life were better without the Internet. If you aren't doing something critical to your life with the Internet (and Facebook is not one of those critical things in most cases), then the Internet is not a necessity. (The Internet is a necessity for many people these days, but Facebook is not a genuine necessity.)
        return0 9y ago
        What kind of thinking is that? TV was equally bad in our times (if not far worse). You realize how horribly authoritarian is what you propose?
  - gwatch 9y ago
    Let people have the freedom to decide how they want to spend their time. So what if fb is addictive? You don’t own other people. It is fascistic to impose your will on others.
  - saas_co_de 9y ago
    so what you are saying is that you, or the government, should be a censor and have the right to determine what information other people are allowed to consume? that seems like a difficult ideology to defend.
    - JoshMnem 9y ago
      That is not what I'm arguing. :) Are you arguing against Net Neutrality? Governments do have a duty to protect people from predatory companies. When private companies inhibit the freedom of a population, would you argue that governments shouldn't intervene to protect the freedom of the people?
      - saas_co_de 9y ago
        So, if FB wants to subsidize an internet plan that is exclusively for FB services, would you say that the government should allow that or prevent it?
        exergy 9y ago
        There's the rub. If the government made a neutral internet a human right, or increased competition by breaking up monopolies, the idiots who think they can get away with offering just Facebook would get royally shafted because consumers would realise that they can get a lot more for the same price by moving to the competition. This would lead to a glorious future where internet would be used properly for what it was intended to do: let anyone share anything with anyone else.
        thisacctforreal 9y ago
        To add, how about Wikipedia doing the same? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Zero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Zero
        JoshMnem 9y ago
        It seems like a bad idea from a first glance. It looks like there are also Twitter Zero, Google Free Zone, and possibly others. Other countries have the right to develop their Internet with the same freedom that we currently have. (I'm in the US.) People who are concerned with "freedom" should be looking at the long-term effects of those policies on consumers and smaller entrepreneurs too -- not just the effects on larger companies.
- tudorw 9y ago
  Good question, how about if FB was a library, and free access was granted, but the selection of books was controlled by one person.
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
  If someone can get access to walmart parking lot for free and can't afford streets otherwise is it better for them to have no streets at all? I find it is really strange to call facebook access "internet access". A walmart parking lot is not a street network and facebook is not internet.
  - return0 9y ago
    > and facebook is not internet. For you. An example is elderly people (who would appreciate the cheaper prices).
    - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
      Some elderly people are content with a bicycle. Does that make a bicycle a car? The fact that some elderly people might be content with facebook access does not make facebook access any sort of internet access.
      - return0 9y ago
        > Does that make a bicycle a car? Uhm, it does because it is literally a car? Maybe your ass is unable to accept anything less than the softness of a leather seat, but for millions of people a bicycle or a cheap motorbike is a savior. (dont get me started on the unbelievable arrogance that because you can afford it, everyone should)
        zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
        Seriously? Because I don't think that a bicycle is a car (I just checked a dictionary, I am pretty sure it's not), I am arrogant because I supposedly can afford it and supposedly think everyone should? If that is what counts as logic to you, I don't think there is much of a point to discussing with you any further.
        return0 9y ago
- voidwtf 9y ago
  You're completely ignoring the power this gives Facebook. This completely eliminates any opportunity for competition to enter the market. How likely is it that any future competitor will be able to get this same deal? How much money is Facebook paying to subsidize this internet? How about any links to information Facebook does not directly host? This attitude is a surefire way to ensure our future is controlled by a select few. The solution IMO should be cheaper, lower bandwidth, options. No data caps, just less speed. Like ELP plans in the US.
na85 9y ago
The internet sure was good while it lasted.
gexla 9y ago
Facebook free doesn't even give you images, at least, not on my provider.

by kirykl 9y ago

“I don’t need anything more than the free Facebook plan. If a new startup creates something FB will just copy it and I’ll soon have it for free anyway” -future internet user logic

saas_co_de 9y ago

If a user can get FB services for free and can't afford internet otherwise is it better for them to have no internet at all?

JoshMnem 9y ago
Yes -- otherwise they are squandering their long term Internet freedom for short term access to addicting garbage (Facebook).
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- return0 9y ago
  jesus that's judgemental.
  - andrepd 9y ago
    It's also a fact (Facebook is literally addictive).
    - return0 9y ago
      like almost everything (including HN, trust me, i ve been there)
  - JoshMnem 9y ago
    Here is some information: * http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/12161461/Facebook-addiction-activates-same-part-of-the-brain-as-cocaine.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/12161461/Facebook-addiction-... * http://www.salimvirani.com/facebook/ http://www.salimvirani.com/facebook/ * https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2012/04/05/the-true-costs-of-facebook-addiction-low-self-esteem-and-poor-body-image/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2012/04/05/the-tru... * https://www.wired.com/story/our-minds-have-been-hijacked-by-our-phones-tristan-harris-wants-to-rescue-them/ https://www.wired.com/story/our-minds-have-been-hijacked-by-... * https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609104/smartphones-are-weapons-of-mass-manipulation-and-this-guy-is-declaring-war-on-them/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609104/smartphones-are-we... * https://journal.thriveglobal.com/how-technology-hijacks-peoples-minds-from-a-magician-and-google-s-design-ethicist-56d62ef5edf3 https://journal.thriveglobal.com/how-technology-hijacks-peop... * https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/11/the-binge-breaker/501122/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/11/the-bin... * https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/25/facebook-orwellian-journalists-democracy-guatemala-slovakia https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/25/facebook-... More things are happening in real life, email/telephone, newspapers, magazines, and in books than on Facebook. I think that Facebook is bad for the human mind and bad for society.
    - return0 9y ago
      I 'm not disputing that facebook is an addiction (like many things in life). But there is a big chunk of users who learned to use the internet SOLELY for facebook, they remain there solely for that and would stop using it if it wasn't for facebook. Having the freedom to research any topic, while sounding noble as a thing, is just not something that a lot of people want to do.
      - exergy 9y ago
        You're missing the point. Why should we regress? The system, as it exists, freely allows these fabled old people of yours to access Facebook. But in letting net neutrality evaporate, the rest of us get screwed for no benefit. Jesus, net neutrality makes my blood boil. Fuck Ajit Pai, that /r/punchablefaces wanker extraordinaire.
        return0 9y ago
        maybe if your blood didn't boil you could make some rational arguments.
      - JoshMnem 9y ago
        > But there is a big chunk of users who learned to use the internet SOLELY for facebook, they remain there solely for that and would stop using it if it wasn't for facebook. I'd argue that it would be better in most cases not to use the Internet if Facebook were the only option. Accepting Facebook as your "Internet" means that the next generations probably will not have a Free, open Internet. I grew up before the Internet was widely used. Many aspects of life were better without the Internet. If you aren't doing something critical to your life with the Internet (and Facebook is not one of those critical things in most cases), then the Internet is not a necessity. (The Internet is a necessity for many people these days, but Facebook is not a genuine necessity.)
        return0 9y ago
        What kind of thinking is that? TV was equally bad in our times (if not far worse). You realize how horribly authoritarian is what you propose?
- gwatch 9y ago
  Let people have the freedom to decide how they want to spend their time. So what if fb is addictive? You don’t own other people. It is fascistic to impose your will on others.
- saas_co_de 9y ago
  so what you are saying is that you, or the government, should be a censor and have the right to determine what information other people are allowed to consume? that seems like a difficult ideology to defend.
  - JoshMnem 9y ago
    That is not what I'm arguing. :) Are you arguing against Net Neutrality? Governments do have a duty to protect people from predatory companies. When private companies inhibit the freedom of a population, would you argue that governments shouldn't intervene to protect the freedom of the people?
    - saas_co_de 9y ago
      So, if FB wants to subsidize an internet plan that is exclusively for FB services, would you say that the government should allow that or prevent it?
      - exergy 9y ago
        There's the rub. If the government made a neutral internet a human right, or increased competition by breaking up monopolies, the idiots who think they can get away with offering just Facebook would get royally shafted because consumers would realise that they can get a lot more for the same price by moving to the competition. This would lead to a glorious future where internet would be used properly for what it was intended to do: let anyone share anything with anyone else.
      - thisacctforreal 9y ago
        To add, how about Wikipedia doing the same? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Zero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Zero
        JoshMnem 9y ago
        It seems like a bad idea from a first glance. It looks like there are also Twitter Zero, Google Free Zone, and possibly others. Other countries have the right to develop their Internet with the same freedom that we currently have. (I'm in the US.) People who are concerned with "freedom" should be looking at the long-term effects of those policies on consumers and smaller entrepreneurs too -- not just the effects on larger companies.
tudorw 9y ago
Good question, how about if FB was a library, and free access was granted, but the selection of books was controlled by one person.
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
If someone can get access to walmart parking lot for free and can't afford streets otherwise is it better for them to have no streets at all? I find it is really strange to call facebook access "internet access". A walmart parking lot is not a street network and facebook is not internet.
- return0 9y ago
  > and facebook is not internet. For you. An example is elderly people (who would appreciate the cheaper prices).
  - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
    Some elderly people are content with a bicycle. Does that make a bicycle a car? The fact that some elderly people might be content with facebook access does not make facebook access any sort of internet access.
    - return0 9y ago
      > Does that make a bicycle a car? Uhm, it does because it is literally a car? Maybe your ass is unable to accept anything less than the softness of a leather seat, but for millions of people a bicycle or a cheap motorbike is a savior. (dont get me started on the unbelievable arrogance that because you can afford it, everyone should)
      - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
        Seriously? Because I don't think that a bicycle is a car (I just checked a dictionary, I am pretty sure it's not), I am arrogant because I supposedly can afford it and supposedly think everyone should? If that is what counts as logic to you, I don't think there is much of a point to discussing with you any further.
        return0 9y ago
voidwtf 9y ago
You're completely ignoring the power this gives Facebook. This completely eliminates any opportunity for competition to enter the market. How likely is it that any future competitor will be able to get this same deal? How much money is Facebook paying to subsidize this internet? How about any links to information Facebook does not directly host? This attitude is a surefire way to ensure our future is controlled by a select few. The solution IMO should be cheaper, lower bandwidth, options. No data caps, just less speed. Like ELP plans in the US.

na85 9y ago

The internet sure was good while it lasted.

gexla 9y ago

Facebook free doesn't even give you images, at least, not on my provider.