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Something is really wrong with the system when billionaires have their bail set at 1 million. If he wanted to flee and forfeit his bail money, his net worth wou

Something is really wrong with the system when billionaires have their bail set at 1 million. If he wanted to flee and forfeit his bail money, his net worth would be impacted about the same as the average American getting a parking ticket.

mrep 9y ago
Well he's probably got most of his money entrenched in the american economy (billionaires don't just sit on cash and let it depreciate from inflation). If he actually flees, the US government could easily seize most of his assets.
- ringaroundthetx 9y ago
  sounds like a problem for THE BLOCKCHAIN
- s0rce 9y ago
  Better question is there still millions overseas that he could live comfortably on if he flees.
jsmthrowaway 9y ago
Bail is to guarantee appearance to respond to the crime, not insure against the accused, and reflects the seriousness of the crime and how much the state would care if you don’t answer for it. That’s why if you go in on multiple sets of charges you have multiple bails. That’s also why your DUI bail was five figures or less. In most places there is a table for bail amounts that can be stiffened, softened, or denied entirely at the judge’s discretion, but it is all based on the crime and flight risk only. $1 million is a fairly high bail, generally in the ADW/manslaughter/sexual assault neighborhood. A court is not set up to handle a $1 billion bail, as you’re suggesting. That sort of money isn’t just moved around like that ($1 million is difficult enough), and the court would almost certainly mishandle it.
- charlesdm 9y ago
  Probably not, but for someone with a net worth of $1bn it seems extremely low. Just like said bail is extremely high for someone with a close to $0 or negative net worth. How about setting it at $100m? That doesn't sound unreasonable given the situation. Not mishandling is easy: you put it in a locked escrow account and don't touch it. It the depositor had to borrow against assets to secure the deposit, then let reasonable interest accrue against the principal and deduct.
  - jsmthrowaway 9y ago
    Bail is set independently of net worth considerations and in a relatively impartial manner, which is the point. Judges do not have the flexibility to set a bail that high. Destitute murderers get $5 million+ bails all the time, which we would have to revisit if we started factoring in net worth (think about it).
    - charlesdm 9y ago
      Yes, I am aware. But to me it seems like a clear flaw in the current law. Just like if you always fine people $100 for speeding, then average folk will generally adjust their behaviour and millionaires will be able to race around and not give a f*.
    - fjsolwmv 9y ago
      Explain how a single murder-er is more dangerous than someone who has killed thousands of people and undermined the medical professional overall.
    - mikeash 9y ago
      Bail is set independently of net worth, but is that how it should be? There are tons of poor people stuck in jail awaiting trial for relatively minor crimes because they can't afford what would be a trivial bail amount to most HN readers. A rich person who commits a much more severe crime gets to sleep at home, or can flee if they think they don't have a good chance of winning without a big financial impact. Is that just?
leroy_masochist 9y ago
I mean, they took his passports and are making him wear a tracking device, that's the important part. For someone worth 10 figures, no bail amount reasonably imposed by a court would be sufficient to serve in practical terms as forced remand.
- 21 9y ago
  > For someone worth 10 figures, no bail amount reasonably imposed by a court would be sufficient to serve in practical terms as forced remand Sure it will. Put a 50% net-wealth bail on him (500 mil). Accept shares if he doesn't have cash. You will say it's not reasonable. But then it is reasonable to put a $50k bail on a poor person, which doesn't even have that money? In this case the bail is >100% net worth.
  - akira2501 9y ago
    > Accept shares if he doesn't have cash. And if the shares lose value while he's out on bail? Our defendant just lost their incentive to reclaim them.
Camillo 9y ago
Do we have a significant number of accused billionaires fleeing the country and forfeiting bail?

mrep 9y ago

Well he's probably got most of his money entrenched in the american economy (billionaires don't just sit on cash and let it depreciate from inflation). If he actually flees, the US government could easily seize most of his assets.

ringaroundthetx 9y ago
sounds like a problem for THE BLOCKCHAIN
s0rce 9y ago
Better question is there still millions overseas that he could live comfortably on if he flees.

jsmthrowaway 9y ago

Bail is to guarantee appearance to respond to the crime, not insure against the accused, and reflects the seriousness of the crime and how much the state would care if you don’t answer for it. That’s why if you go in on multiple sets of charges you have multiple bails. That’s also why your DUI bail was five figures or less. In most places there is a table for bail amounts that can be stiffened, softened, or denied entirely at the judge’s discretion, but it is all based on the crime and flight risk only. $1 million is a fairly high bail, generally in the ADW/manslaughter/sexual assault neighborhood. A court is not set up to handle a $1 billion bail, as you’re suggesting. That sort of money isn’t just moved around like that ($1 million is difficult enough), and the court would almost certainly mishandle it.

charlesdm 9y ago
Probably not, but for someone with a net worth of $1bn it seems extremely low. Just like said bail is extremely high for someone with a close to $0 or negative net worth. How about setting it at $100m? That doesn't sound unreasonable given the situation. Not mishandling is easy: you put it in a locked escrow account and don't touch it. It the depositor had to borrow against assets to secure the deposit, then let reasonable interest accrue against the principal and deduct.
- jsmthrowaway 9y ago
  Bail is set independently of net worth considerations and in a relatively impartial manner, which is the point. Judges do not have the flexibility to set a bail that high. Destitute murderers get $5 million+ bails all the time, which we would have to revisit if we started factoring in net worth (think about it).
  - charlesdm 9y ago
    Yes, I am aware. But to me it seems like a clear flaw in the current law. Just like if you always fine people $100 for speeding, then average folk will generally adjust their behaviour and millionaires will be able to race around and not give a f*.
  - fjsolwmv 9y ago
    Explain how a single murder-er is more dangerous than someone who has killed thousands of people and undermined the medical professional overall.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    Bail is set independently of net worth, but is that how it should be? There are tons of poor people stuck in jail awaiting trial for relatively minor crimes because they can't afford what would be a trivial bail amount to most HN readers. A rich person who commits a much more severe crime gets to sleep at home, or can flee if they think they don't have a good chance of winning without a big financial impact. Is that just?

leroy_masochist 9y ago

I mean, they took his passports and are making him wear a tracking device, that's the important part. For someone worth 10 figures, no bail amount reasonably imposed by a court would be sufficient to serve in practical terms as forced remand.

21 9y ago
> For someone worth 10 figures, no bail amount reasonably imposed by a court would be sufficient to serve in practical terms as forced remand Sure it will. Put a 50% net-wealth bail on him (500 mil). Accept shares if he doesn't have cash. You will say it's not reasonable. But then it is reasonable to put a $50k bail on a poor person, which doesn't even have that money? In this case the bail is >100% net worth.
- akira2501 9y ago
  > Accept shares if he doesn't have cash. And if the shares lose value while he's out on bail? Our defendant just lost their incentive to reclaim them.

Camillo 9y ago

Do we have a significant number of accused billionaires fleeing the country and forfeiting bail?