9 ms·

There is a video with great analysis on this. Ultimately argues that Simpsons was a great piece of counter culture, then it just won and became culture, losing

There is a video with great analysis on this. Ultimately argues that Simpsons was a great piece of counter culture, then it just won and became culture, losing its ability to skewer mainstream comedy. Along with an upheaval in the writer's room, it just went absurd all the time. That's a sometimes brilliant move, but dull when used in place of any substance. It also forgot how to stay true to its characters. Much more here: https://youtu.be/KqFNbCcyFkk https://youtu.be/KqFNbCcyFkk

yupyup 9y ago
Super Eyepatch Wolf is a great anime review channel. I have started following some series after watching his reviews.
walls 9y ago
> Ultimately argues that Simpsons was a great piece of counter culture, then it just won and became culture, losing its ability to skewer mainstream comedy. I feel like South Park has managed to do both.
- eof 9y ago
  Seems to be South Park is having a bit of a renaissance.
  - ahartmetz 9y ago
    It seemed to jump the shark around season 6 (IIRC) when they just turned up the grossness, but became better than ever after that and more or less stayed there.
- Retric 9y ago
  South Park and Simpsons both suffer from their own past glory. Where exactly do you go next year after woodland criter Christmas?https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodland_Critter_Christmas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodland_Critter_Christmas Really, even in off seasons they often have great episodes, they simply suffer by comparison.
  - oneplane 9y ago
    Link to the non-mobile version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodland_Critter_Christmas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodland_Critter_Christmas
  - psyc 9y ago
    South Park keeps surprising me with each new season. I died at their portrayal of Zuckerberg.
  - narrator 9y ago
    South Park has gotten to obsessed with current events lately. Every episode seems like a transparent rehash of recent political news now. I think they are now interested in using the show to push their political opinions where it used to be about being funny and the themes and jokes were more timeless. It could also be that they just ran out of material after 21 seasons so they use current events as a writing crutch.
  - tim333 9y ago
    Make Love Not Warcraft was a highlight for me. Maybe it's the geek thing.
- madeofpalk 9y ago
  I know this is an extremely unpopular opinion (I've never met anyone in person who agrees with this), but I don't think South Park is good or particularly 'topical'. It's always struck me as fake, untactful and does nothing apart from making people feel smart about themselves. The Outline (somewhat ironically imho) summed it up when they said "South Park is not subversive": For 21 seasons, Trey Parker and Matt Stone have given fake woke white people a sense of self-satisfaction, reassuring them that they rise above the myopia that grips the residents of South Park; that they are subverting the establishment, rather than perpetuating it. Much like a joke South Park made about residents of San Francisco: They smugly inhaled their own farts. https://theoutline.com/post/2234/south-park-is-not-subversive https://theoutline.com/post/2234/south-park-is-not-subversiv...
  - chillwaves 9y ago
    South Park is awful and sanctimonious at the same time. The fans are also awful and sanctimonious. Nothing about what they do in "satire" is clever. Your quote nails it. It is for people who want to pretend they are the smartest person in the room, largely because they watch South Park.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      Or, you know, is for people who enjoy the humor, in all parts of the world (I'm in Europe) and could not care less about pretending to be "the smartest person in the room". Not sure about today's episodes (have lost touch), but that was certainly true 20 years ago when we were watching the seasons 1-10 or so. In my experience people criticizing others for being "pretentious" etc. usually can't fathom anyone liking anything that's either not entirely mainstream or having any second level of reading. Heck, those people would accuse someone reading e.g. literature (something that billions all over the world have done for millennia) as "pretentious" (as if anything above Stephen King is some kind of crime).
      - BLKNSLVR 9y ago
        Quoting Bill Hicks: "I was in Nashville, Tennesee last year. After the show I went to a Waffle House. I'm not proud of it, I was hungry. And I'm alone, I'm eating and I'm reading a book, right? Waitress walks over to me: 'Hey, whatcha readin' for?' Isn't that the weirdest fuckin' question you've ever heard? Not what am I reading, but what am I reading FOR? Well, godammit, ya stumped me! Why do I read? Well . . . hmmm . . . I dunno . . . I guess I read for a lot of reasons and the main one is so I don't end up being a fuckin' waffle waitress." Bill Hicks would have been described as pretentious by people who disagree with what he says. They'd have also said his humour wasn't clever, it was just insulting, rude, and low-brow. They wouldn't be entirely wrong, but they'd be mostly wrong. Same goes for South Park or Rick & Morty or The Simpsons. Those who disagree will find ways of protecting their world view against a trickle or tide of inconvenient or uncomfortable alternatives no matter how logically, reasonably, and / or cleverly the alternative is presented.
- Trill-I-Am 9y ago
  South Park is so much worse since it switched to its new, faster production schedule and a more topical focus. The show was better when it focused on the characters, like the LOTR episode or Scott Tenoman Must Die, rather than the topical episodes. If they’ve run out of non-topical ways to explore the characters, then they should end the show.
  - ionised 9y ago
    I have to agree with this. I can still enjoy the show but the high point for me was the period between seasons 3 to 9, when the surrealism and sense of adventure in the kids learning about the world was at its highest point. Now it is just entirely topic-of-the-week and while it can do it quite well, sometimes it just falls flat.
laumars 9y ago
> Simpsons was a great piece of counter culture, then it just won and became culture I've often mused over this as well. I remember when Simpsons was first aired in the UK, there was lots of complaints over it. The WI (Women's Institute) running campaigns again the show because its content was considered harmful. People even threatening to boycott the BBC and any high street stores that sold Simpsons merchandise. Slogans like "Eat my shorts" caused massive outrage. Yet most of those people who were angered by the very concept of the show ended up watching it with their own families. And in the end the show became a victim of it's own success; it's no longer able to surprise people without going totally random. A point South Park commented on in one of their shows where Butters keeps being reminded that all of this plot ideas have already happened in the Simpsons (this was before South Park became just as tired as the Simpsons)
- tuxt 9y ago
  >Butters keeps being reminded that all of this plot ideas have already happened in the Simpsons Now it's South Park's turn(Rick mentions "South Park did it" on Rick and Morty)
  - cholantesh 9y ago
    And as the proliferation of the To Be Fair copypasta shows, they may get there soon.
  - toomanybeersies 9y ago
    So at this rate, if Rick and Morty keeps on going for a few seasons, a new show will mention that "Rick and Morty did it".
    - megaman22 9y ago
      At the current rate, it'll take the better part of a century for Rick and Morty to count up to a couple hundred episodes and get stale like its forebears have.
      - 9y ago
s_dev 9y ago
Interesting to see him mentioned for his commentary on the Simpsons, had picked up on him before due to his Irish accent but I know him from Real Engineering -- it's light content but it's well made. Might be of more interest to HNers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzRlga2-Hho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzRlga2-Hho
- brownbat 9y ago
  Uncanny. My last comment, immediately prior to this one, was a link to Real Engineering, and yet somehow I had never put it together that these were the same voice, which they so obviously are in retrospect. Thanks!
wils1245 9y ago
At some point though, what more can you do with characters? After a while the viewer knows everything about them and the setting they exist in. There's nothing more to flesh out. I grew up watching the Simpsons every day. I stopped watching because I didn't like the new episodes, but also because there was nothing any of the characters could credibly do that would surprise me, or that I hadn't already seen them do.

yupyup 9y ago

Super Eyepatch Wolf is a great anime review channel. I have started following some series after watching his reviews.

walls 9y ago

> Ultimately argues that Simpsons was a great piece of counter culture, then it just won and became culture, losing its ability to skewer mainstream comedy. I feel like South Park has managed to do both.

eof 9y ago
Seems to be South Park is having a bit of a renaissance.
- ahartmetz 9y ago
  It seemed to jump the shark around season 6 (IIRC) when they just turned up the grossness, but became better than ever after that and more or less stayed there.
Retric 9y ago
South Park and Simpsons both suffer from their own past glory. Where exactly do you go next year after woodland criter Christmas?https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodland_Critter_Christmas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodland_Critter_Christmas Really, even in off seasons they often have great episodes, they simply suffer by comparison.
- oneplane 9y ago
  Link to the non-mobile version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodland_Critter_Christmas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodland_Critter_Christmas
- psyc 9y ago
  South Park keeps surprising me with each new season. I died at their portrayal of Zuckerberg.
- narrator 9y ago
  South Park has gotten to obsessed with current events lately. Every episode seems like a transparent rehash of recent political news now. I think they are now interested in using the show to push their political opinions where it used to be about being funny and the themes and jokes were more timeless. It could also be that they just ran out of material after 21 seasons so they use current events as a writing crutch.
- tim333 9y ago
  Make Love Not Warcraft was a highlight for me. Maybe it's the geek thing.
madeofpalk 9y ago
I know this is an extremely unpopular opinion (I've never met anyone in person who agrees with this), but I don't think South Park is good or particularly 'topical'. It's always struck me as fake, untactful and does nothing apart from making people feel smart about themselves. The Outline (somewhat ironically imho) summed it up when they said "South Park is not subversive": For 21 seasons, Trey Parker and Matt Stone have given fake woke white people a sense of self-satisfaction, reassuring them that they rise above the myopia that grips the residents of South Park; that they are subverting the establishment, rather than perpetuating it. Much like a joke South Park made about residents of San Francisco: They smugly inhaled their own farts. https://theoutline.com/post/2234/south-park-is-not-subversive https://theoutline.com/post/2234/south-park-is-not-subversiv...
- chillwaves 9y ago
  South Park is awful and sanctimonious at the same time. The fans are also awful and sanctimonious. Nothing about what they do in "satire" is clever. Your quote nails it. It is for people who want to pretend they are the smartest person in the room, largely because they watch South Park.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    Or, you know, is for people who enjoy the humor, in all parts of the world (I'm in Europe) and could not care less about pretending to be "the smartest person in the room". Not sure about today's episodes (have lost touch), but that was certainly true 20 years ago when we were watching the seasons 1-10 or so. In my experience people criticizing others for being "pretentious" etc. usually can't fathom anyone liking anything that's either not entirely mainstream or having any second level of reading. Heck, those people would accuse someone reading e.g. literature (something that billions all over the world have done for millennia) as "pretentious" (as if anything above Stephen King is some kind of crime).
    - BLKNSLVR 9y ago
      Quoting Bill Hicks: "I was in Nashville, Tennesee last year. After the show I went to a Waffle House. I'm not proud of it, I was hungry. And I'm alone, I'm eating and I'm reading a book, right? Waitress walks over to me: 'Hey, whatcha readin' for?' Isn't that the weirdest fuckin' question you've ever heard? Not what am I reading, but what am I reading FOR? Well, godammit, ya stumped me! Why do I read? Well . . . hmmm . . . I dunno . . . I guess I read for a lot of reasons and the main one is so I don't end up being a fuckin' waffle waitress." Bill Hicks would have been described as pretentious by people who disagree with what he says. They'd have also said his humour wasn't clever, it was just insulting, rude, and low-brow. They wouldn't be entirely wrong, but they'd be mostly wrong. Same goes for South Park or Rick & Morty or The Simpsons. Those who disagree will find ways of protecting their world view against a trickle or tide of inconvenient or uncomfortable alternatives no matter how logically, reasonably, and / or cleverly the alternative is presented.
Trill-I-Am 9y ago
South Park is so much worse since it switched to its new, faster production schedule and a more topical focus. The show was better when it focused on the characters, like the LOTR episode or Scott Tenoman Must Die, rather than the topical episodes. If they’ve run out of non-topical ways to explore the characters, then they should end the show.
- ionised 9y ago
  I have to agree with this. I can still enjoy the show but the high point for me was the period between seasons 3 to 9, when the surrealism and sense of adventure in the kids learning about the world was at its highest point. Now it is just entirely topic-of-the-week and while it can do it quite well, sometimes it just falls flat.

laumars 9y ago

> Simpsons was a great piece of counter culture, then it just won and became culture I've often mused over this as well. I remember when Simpsons was first aired in the UK, there was lots of complaints over it. The WI (Women's Institute) running campaigns again the show because its content was considered harmful. People even threatening to boycott the BBC and any high street stores that sold Simpsons merchandise. Slogans like "Eat my shorts" caused massive outrage. Yet most of those people who were angered by the very concept of the show ended up watching it with their own families. And in the end the show became a victim of it's own success; it's no longer able to surprise people without going totally random. A point South Park commented on in one of their shows where Butters keeps being reminded that all of this plot ideas have already happened in the Simpsons (this was before South Park became just as tired as the Simpsons)

tuxt 9y ago
>Butters keeps being reminded that all of this plot ideas have already happened in the Simpsons Now it's South Park's turn(Rick mentions "South Park did it" on Rick and Morty)
- cholantesh 9y ago
  And as the proliferation of the To Be Fair copypasta shows, they may get there soon.
- toomanybeersies 9y ago
  So at this rate, if Rick and Morty keeps on going for a few seasons, a new show will mention that "Rick and Morty did it".
  - megaman22 9y ago
    At the current rate, it'll take the better part of a century for Rick and Morty to count up to a couple hundred episodes and get stale like its forebears have.
    - 9y ago

s_dev 9y ago

Interesting to see him mentioned for his commentary on the Simpsons, had picked up on him before due to his Irish accent but I know him from Real Engineering -- it's light content but it's well made. Might be of more interest to HNers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzRlga2-Hho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzRlga2-Hho

brownbat 9y ago
Uncanny. My last comment, immediately prior to this one, was a link to Real Engineering, and yet somehow I had never put it together that these were the same voice, which they so obviously are in retrospect. Thanks!

wils1245 9y ago

At some point though, what more can you do with characters? After a while the viewer knows everything about them and the setting they exist in. There's nothing more to flesh out. I grew up watching the Simpsons every day. I stopped watching because I didn't like the new episodes, but also because there was nothing any of the characters could credibly do that would surprise me, or that I hadn't already seen them do.