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I worry about an increasing movement toward radicalization on all ends of the political spectrum. I think Trump represented a shift to the far-right. Now I worr

I worry about an increasing movement toward radicalization on all ends of the political spectrum. I think Trump represented a shift to the far-right. Now I worry liberals might shift to the far-left. The middle ground seems to be disappearing

agumonkey 9y ago
Human reality aside, it's an interesting tension phenomenon; like stormy weather.. voltage difference grows and then thunder. What impresses me more, in less than a decade we went from "ohhh web 2.0 and iphones" to "brexit, catalout, djt vs kju, nazi rallies". That's a quick and vast change.
justinzollars 9y ago
Having lived in Ohio, the far right is exactly the same as the far left here in San Francisco. What is funny is they do not realize this. So I think its more a personality type selection than actual thought process or belief. The result of believing the other side is evil, is no one is willing to work together so we all lose. I think this could be a function of things we've built on the internet such as the ability to "hide" or "block" - even moderators are bad I, an elected DNC delegate is banned from the DailyKos because I disagreed with the Democrats proxy war policy on Syria. We are in trouble.
- DashRattlesnake 9y ago
  > So I think its more a personality type selection than actual thought process or belief. Yep, I think that's an important insight. I know a few people who grew up in very evangelical/conservative Christian communities who later dropped that ideology for left-wing ones (e.g. feminism). Their attitudes and behaviors are almost exactly the same, except that the content of their ideas has been swapped out.
  - harpiaharpyja 9y ago
    Why the downvotes? Seems like a relevant anecdote.
    - smasuch 9y ago
      because the idea that women should get to work and vote isn't a far-left idea
      - DashRattlesnake 9y ago
        That's a pretty disingenuous comment: First, your characterization is probably accurate if restricted to the "first wave" feminism (of a century ago), but, IIRC, I think we're on the "third wave" now. Second, in the American political context, feminism is highly correlated with progressives/left-wing, and the specific people I was talking about are very left-wing. Thirdly, my comment wasn't even about feminism at all, but about how people can change beliefs without changing a lot of things one might naively assume would change with them.
        smasuch 9y ago
        You brought up the broad concept of 'feminism' as an example and your comment was about people who go to either extreme, so I think I took your comment as being more anti-feminism then you meant it (no ingenuous meant to be dis'ed). I agree with your idea of how some people change beliefs but still keep the same extreme attitude.
mrtksn 9y ago
I think it's called optimisation. Ad sponsored content is optimised to lock in the user and take him/her to the extremes.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
brandonmenc 9y ago
The middle ground is being demonized. Many of my left-leaning friends equate "radical centrists" with Germans who stayed silent during the Holocaust. This is not an exaggeration.
13years 9y ago
> Now I worry liberals might shift to the far-left Yet Trump's election was in part about a reaction to far left movement from the viewpoint of supporters. You may not agree, but the reality is that real or not the perception is what drives outcomes. The left no longer are strong supporters of free speech, no longer oppose imperialism and foreign interventions and are just as hawkish as the right only the rhetoric differs. The greatest irony here is that some portion of Trump's supporters did oppose these things when he was candidate Trump. Just as many of Obama's supporters opposed the wars, domestic spying while he was candidate, but not afterward. Our greatest loss of liberty always comes from whoever wins no matter who they are or their side due to the team sport aspect of politics where most will no longer rationally criticize their own team once they are in power.
- oceanghost 9y ago
  The 2016 election was a comedy of errors (I agree with you fully) in essence: Hillary Clinton = The (corrupt) system is fine. Bernie Sanders = Let's fix the (corrupt) system. Donald Trump = Let's burn the (corrupt) system down. Trump winning broke down the propaganda model in the US, which has degenerated from Manufactured Consent to some sort of continual moral panic ala "The True Believer." The harder the media pressed on Trump-- the more popular he became. Perhaps calling your potential voters "deplorable" while accusing them of being sexists and racists, while undermining democracy itself (Bernie Sanders), was not a recipe for success. The Clinton's corruption is well known to the world. I hate to say this, but Bill and Hillary's proven TREASON pales in comparison to the garden-variety sexism Trump was acused of. The hysteria over Trump is just that-- hysteria. The fact is the Democratic party offered an objectively worse candidate. Both were "shit sandwiches."
maxerickson 9y ago
I've seen little evidence that these sorts of protests are broadly representative of what goes on at universities. There are more than 15 million college students in the US, even dozens and dozens of absurd protests isn't evidence of much. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=98 https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=98
- eesmith 9y ago
  Agreed. Where is the modern equivalent of the Weather Underground and their bombing campaign? Or the Symbionese Liberation Army and their bank robberies, murders and kidnapping? What modern actions are like the bombing of Sterling Hall? And those weren't anywhere close to representative of the anti-war movement in the 1960/1970.
eesmith 9y ago
In the US "far-left" is what, to most of Europe, is "center-right". Free or low-cost college education, strong unions, strong consumer rights laws, inexpensive healthcare with transparent pricing, good public schools, legal cheap and easy access to abortions, subsidized parental leave and day care, etc. This is the middle ground you are looking for, yes? It doesn't seem to be disappearing. Or are those goals part of the far-left that you worry about?
erdojo 9y ago
The shift has been taking hold for about a decade. Educators have been teaching these students these tactics. No surprise they're being used against them.

agumonkey 9y ago

Human reality aside, it's an interesting tension phenomenon; like stormy weather.. voltage difference grows and then thunder. What impresses me more, in less than a decade we went from "ohhh web 2.0 and iphones" to "brexit, catalout, djt vs kju, nazi rallies". That's a quick and vast change.

justinzollars 9y ago

Having lived in Ohio, the far right is exactly the same as the far left here in San Francisco. What is funny is they do not realize this. So I think its more a personality type selection than actual thought process or belief. The result of believing the other side is evil, is no one is willing to work together so we all lose. I think this could be a function of things we've built on the internet such as the ability to "hide" or "block" - even moderators are bad I, an elected DNC delegate is banned from the DailyKos because I disagreed with the Democrats proxy war policy on Syria. We are in trouble.

DashRattlesnake 9y ago
> So I think its more a personality type selection than actual thought process or belief. Yep, I think that's an important insight. I know a few people who grew up in very evangelical/conservative Christian communities who later dropped that ideology for left-wing ones (e.g. feminism). Their attitudes and behaviors are almost exactly the same, except that the content of their ideas has been swapped out.
- harpiaharpyja 9y ago
  Why the downvotes? Seems like a relevant anecdote.
  - smasuch 9y ago
    because the idea that women should get to work and vote isn't a far-left idea
    - DashRattlesnake 9y ago
      That's a pretty disingenuous comment: First, your characterization is probably accurate if restricted to the "first wave" feminism (of a century ago), but, IIRC, I think we're on the "third wave" now. Second, in the American political context, feminism is highly correlated with progressives/left-wing, and the specific people I was talking about are very left-wing. Thirdly, my comment wasn't even about feminism at all, but about how people can change beliefs without changing a lot of things one might naively assume would change with them.
      - smasuch 9y ago
        You brought up the broad concept of 'feminism' as an example and your comment was about people who go to either extreme, so I think I took your comment as being more anti-feminism then you meant it (no ingenuous meant to be dis'ed). I agree with your idea of how some people change beliefs but still keep the same extreme attitude.

mrtksn 9y ago

I think it's called optimisation. Ad sponsored content is optimised to lock in the user and take him/her to the extremes.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

brandonmenc 9y ago

The middle ground is being demonized. Many of my left-leaning friends equate "radical centrists" with Germans who stayed silent during the Holocaust. This is not an exaggeration.

13years 9y ago

> Now I worry liberals might shift to the far-left Yet Trump's election was in part about a reaction to far left movement from the viewpoint of supporters. You may not agree, but the reality is that real or not the perception is what drives outcomes. The left no longer are strong supporters of free speech, no longer oppose imperialism and foreign interventions and are just as hawkish as the right only the rhetoric differs. The greatest irony here is that some portion of Trump's supporters did oppose these things when he was candidate Trump. Just as many of Obama's supporters opposed the wars, domestic spying while he was candidate, but not afterward. Our greatest loss of liberty always comes from whoever wins no matter who they are or their side due to the team sport aspect of politics where most will no longer rationally criticize their own team once they are in power.

oceanghost 9y ago
The 2016 election was a comedy of errors (I agree with you fully) in essence: Hillary Clinton = The (corrupt) system is fine. Bernie Sanders = Let's fix the (corrupt) system. Donald Trump = Let's burn the (corrupt) system down. Trump winning broke down the propaganda model in the US, which has degenerated from Manufactured Consent to some sort of continual moral panic ala "The True Believer." The harder the media pressed on Trump-- the more popular he became. Perhaps calling your potential voters "deplorable" while accusing them of being sexists and racists, while undermining democracy itself (Bernie Sanders), was not a recipe for success. The Clinton's corruption is well known to the world. I hate to say this, but Bill and Hillary's proven TREASON pales in comparison to the garden-variety sexism Trump was acused of. The hysteria over Trump is just that-- hysteria. The fact is the Democratic party offered an objectively worse candidate. Both were "shit sandwiches."

maxerickson 9y ago

I've seen little evidence that these sorts of protests are broadly representative of what goes on at universities. There are more than 15 million college students in the US, even dozens and dozens of absurd protests isn't evidence of much. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=98 https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=98

eesmith 9y ago
Agreed. Where is the modern equivalent of the Weather Underground and their bombing campaign? Or the Symbionese Liberation Army and their bank robberies, murders and kidnapping? What modern actions are like the bombing of Sterling Hall? And those weren't anywhere close to representative of the anti-war movement in the 1960/1970.

eesmith 9y ago

In the US "far-left" is what, to most of Europe, is "center-right". Free or low-cost college education, strong unions, strong consumer rights laws, inexpensive healthcare with transparent pricing, good public schools, legal cheap and easy access to abortions, subsidized parental leave and day care, etc. This is the middle ground you are looking for, yes? It doesn't seem to be disappearing. Or are those goals part of the far-left that you worry about?

erdojo 9y ago

The shift has been taking hold for about a decade. Educators have been teaching these students these tactics. No surprise they're being used against them.