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How the U.K. Prosecuted a Student on Terrorism Charges for Downloading a Book

72 points by cremno 9y ago

tim333 9y ago
Well at least he got off free. >Walker was accused of violating the Terrorism Act because he possessed information “likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism.” What a dumb law. I guess they could prosecute you for reading Wikipedia on that basis. More concise write up here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-41751193 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-41751193 The "possessed information" by the way was The Anarchist Cookbook, available from £24 from Amazon.co.uk https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anarchist-Cookbook-William-Powell/dp/1607964813 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anarchist-Cookbook-William-Powell/d...
- whywhywhywhy 9y ago
  > The Anarchist Cookbook I remember this being passed around between kids in the computer science lab on a floppy disk when I was about 13.
  - Silhouette 9y ago
    I vaguely remember something similar going on at my school way back when, though that might have been The Hacker's Handbook. Probably still enough to freak out the authorities these days, yet remarkably, I'm not aware that any of my class went on to become evil masterminds with secret underground lairs.
- ryanlol 9y ago
  What? The Anarchist Cookbook isn’t even accurate, it’s a novelty a best.
mikhailfranco 9y ago
There is a creeping fascism in the western world. The so-called 'wars' on drugs and terrorism are used as excuses to remove personal freedoms. Governments take more powers unto themselves. The state security apparatus is allowed to spy on everyone. There is a presumption of guilt and citizens have to justify every trivial activity. The previous outlandish fictions of 'Thought Crime' and 'Pre-Crime' become facts of life in the police state. Cultural Marxism also restricts freedom of speech, based on a combination of PC attitudes and juvenile hypersensitivity, which cannot tolerate the freedom to offend. The Enlightenment ideals of free speech and liberal open-minded rationality, are hounded into a Dark Age of gagged anti-scientific silence by the social justice Thought Police. Huge debts have been accumulated by social democracies, which are in a spiral of decline induced by people voting for big govt, cushy public-sector jobs, bloated welfare and high taxes. Debts lead to artificially low interest rates to support banks, and QE to monetize govt debt. The corrupt cronies closest to the spigot of new money accumulate wealth (Cantillon Effect). Elites and insiders are bribed with bonuses and asset-price inflation. Voters are bribed with welfare and public sector jobs, many with anti-meritocratic barriers to firing and fantasy pension promises. These 'wars' and debts combine to justify restrictions on economic freedom. AML and KYC regulations restrict access to financial services and impose de facto capital controls. The governments are broke and they are looking for any source of revenue. The War on Cash restricts economic freedoms. Large denomination notes are withdrawn. There are limits on cash withdrawals, cash deposits and cash purchases. Money is trapped in govt controlled accounts, so it can be taxed, bailed-in and seized at will. In the US, civil asset forfeiture is simply daylight robbery by the state. Neoconservative war-mongering and the bloated military-industrial-complex consume vast resources and destabilize every corner of the world. Democracy is subverted in favor of corrupt autocrats and interventions are justified by false flag operations. Military hardware finds its way into domestic law enforcement. Monitoring and surveillance from the battlefield migrates to our cities and skies. The fascism has arrived and it is all around us.
- vixen99 9y ago
  Wish I could upvote you more.
- cremno 9y ago
  Cultural Marxism isn't real. It's a Neo-Nazi conspiracy theory popularized by a right-wing terrorist. If fascism actually has arrived, you played a part in it. Your views on economic and social policies do too but propertarians like you don't understand fascism and reduce it to authoritarianism.
  - vixen99 9y ago
    Thanks! Countless idiotic commentators who've been led astray. If only you had spoken up earlier we would have seen the truth. What a relief.
    - cremno 9y ago
      Your snark doesn't make my comment less true.
      - naturalgradient 9y ago
        His snark also does not make your comment true in the first place.
  - marcoperaza 9y ago
    The term makes it sound more conspiratorial than it is. It’s simply Marx’s framework of power imbalance and exploitation applied directly to social relations. That’s in contrast to Marx’s use of those ideas: applying them directly to economic relations, and seeing social relations as merely as the superstructure of economic relations. “Critical theory” is a less loaded and more specific term, and there is no doubt that critical theory emerged from neo-Marxist thinkers of the Frankfurt School. There are certainly conspiracy theories about critical theory, but critical theory scholars themselves used to use the term “cultural Marxism”. Modern day radical feminism and identity politics is without a doubt philosophically grounded in critical theory.
DanBC 9y ago
> Last summer, Walker traveled from London to Syria, where he joined the Kurdish-led YPG militia in its fight against the so-called Islamic State What a fucking stupid title.
- cpncrunch 9y ago
  How so? The prosecution had nothing to do with syria. That helped his case.
  - DanBC 9y ago
    The arrest had everything to do with his travel to Syria.
    - marcoperaza 9y ago
      What you're arrested for and what you're prosecuted for are really two totally separate issues. Arresting someone who fought in Syria is pretty reasonable. Finding out that they fought for the Western-backed "good guys" is a great reason to drop the charges, which they did. Charging him for owning a book is what they did too.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
yardie 9y ago
If you don’t read the article and think the Intercept is being hyperbolic as they normally are. Rest assured the title is exactly what happened. Walker was charged under terrorism laws not for planning, conspiring, nor performing acts of terrorism. The prosecutor made the argument that possessing the book was an act of terrorism. A book he downloaded from the school library. Also equally available on the Amazon and downloadable from internet since the dawn of the WWW.
- Silhouette 9y ago
  We have some pretty scary laws on the books here in the UK, not least in terms of chilling effects. Those of us who support human rights and generally democratic and civilised society have always expressed concern about broad reach and excessive powers and lack of effective oversight. Unfortunately our voice is not loud enough when fear is the opposition, even if that fear is mostly irrational and stoked more by the government and media than the bad guys. Sometimes I wonder who is really causing the most damage in the first place these days.
- petercooper 9y ago
  If you don’t read the article and think the Intercept is being hyperbolic as they normally are. Rest assured the title is exactly what happened. .. with the minor addition that he was initially arrested upon returning from helping a militia in the Middle East.
  - tim333 9y ago
    Though an anti ISIL militia backed by the US, other western nations and Russia. 'The YPG is regarded as the "most effective" force in fighting ISIL in Syria' according to Wikipedia. I dare say Erdogan hates the YPG which is probably why the Brits have to be a bit half hearted in their backing. Got to think of the arms exports after all https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/22/uk-arms-sales-turkey-rights-abuse https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/22/uk-arms-sales-...
    - petercooper 9y ago
phkahler 9y ago
This stood out for me: >> It was an issue of “personal responsibility,” he said, and it was the government’s view that possessing the book was unlawful, because it could be useful to terrorists. The prosecution claimed it's about personal responsibility while trying to enforce a law that seems to deny people are entitled or able to exercise such a thing.
solo1717 9y ago
The UK govt is an absolute joke when it comes to justice. Bunch of self righteous cunts, mostly old decrepit females, ruining people's lives so they feel better about themselves. Meanwhile real criminals and terrorists are ignored completely.
marcoperaza 9y ago
Not surprising for a country that arrests people for tweeting criticism of Islam.
- hellbanner 9y ago
  Or shuts down public talks and harasses the family of someone who criticizes islamic attacks in the UK. State: "Don't do your talk, it might make the muslims mad and we don't want a riot" Either they are A) cowering, and the terrorists have won by censoring free speech from perceived threat of attack or B) UK government is infiltrated and having their strings pulled. Maybe this has to do with them leaving the EU? Test out how the new censorship laws work away from the EU
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- DanBC 9y ago
  No one has been arrested for tweeting criticism of Islam.
  - marcoperaza 9y ago
    >No one has been arrested for tweeting criticism of Islam. You’re simply wrong. https://mobile.twitter.com/sussex_police/status/877110502350098432 https://mobile.twitter.com/sussex_police/status/877110502350... https://mobile.twitter.com/wiltshirepolice/status/889585359297945602 https://mobile.twitter.com/wiltshirepolice/status/8895853592... http://www.businessinsider.com/in-britain-police-arrest-twitter-and-facebook-users-if-they-make-anti-muslim-statements-2013-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/in-britain-police-arrest-twit... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-f... http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/as-katie-hopkins-brands-muslims-these-sods-in-wake-of-terror-arrest_uk_5902dc56e4b05c39767d6cd9 http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/as-katie-hopkins-brand...
    - 9y ago

72 points by cremno 9y ago

Well at least he got off free. >Walker was accused of violating the Terrorism Act because he possessed information “likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism.” What a dumb law. I guess they could prosecute you for reading Wikipedia on that basis. More concise write up here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-41751193 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-41751193 The "possessed information" by the way was The Anarchist Cookbook, available from £24 from Amazon.co.uk https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anarchist-Cookbook-William-Powell/dp/1607964813 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anarchist-Cookbook-William-Powell/d...

whywhywhywhy 9y ago
> The Anarchist Cookbook I remember this being passed around between kids in the computer science lab on a floppy disk when I was about 13.
- Silhouette 9y ago
  I vaguely remember something similar going on at my school way back when, though that might have been The Hacker's Handbook. Probably still enough to freak out the authorities these days, yet remarkably, I'm not aware that any of my class went on to become evil masterminds with secret underground lairs.
ryanlol 9y ago
What? The Anarchist Cookbook isn’t even accurate, it’s a novelty a best.

mikhailfranco 9y ago

There is a creeping fascism in the western world. The so-called 'wars' on drugs and terrorism are used as excuses to remove personal freedoms. Governments take more powers unto themselves. The state security apparatus is allowed to spy on everyone. There is a presumption of guilt and citizens have to justify every trivial activity. The previous outlandish fictions of 'Thought Crime' and 'Pre-Crime' become facts of life in the police state. Cultural Marxism also restricts freedom of speech, based on a combination of PC attitudes and juvenile hypersensitivity, which cannot tolerate the freedom to offend. The Enlightenment ideals of free speech and liberal open-minded rationality, are hounded into a Dark Age of gagged anti-scientific silence by the social justice Thought Police. Huge debts have been accumulated by social democracies, which are in a spiral of decline induced by people voting for big govt, cushy public-sector jobs, bloated welfare and high taxes. Debts lead to artificially low interest rates to support banks, and QE to monetize govt debt. The corrupt cronies closest to the spigot of new money accumulate wealth (Cantillon Effect). Elites and insiders are bribed with bonuses and asset-price inflation. Voters are bribed with welfare and public sector jobs, many with anti-meritocratic barriers to firing and fantasy pension promises. These 'wars' and debts combine to justify restrictions on economic freedom. AML and KYC regulations restrict access to financial services and impose de facto capital controls. The governments are broke and they are looking for any source of revenue. The War on Cash restricts economic freedoms. Large denomination notes are withdrawn. There are limits on cash withdrawals, cash deposits and cash purchases. Money is trapped in govt controlled accounts, so it can be taxed, bailed-in and seized at will. In the US, civil asset forfeiture is simply daylight robbery by the state. Neoconservative war-mongering and the bloated military-industrial-complex consume vast resources and destabilize every corner of the world. Democracy is subverted in favor of corrupt autocrats and interventions are justified by false flag operations. Military hardware finds its way into domestic law enforcement. Monitoring and surveillance from the battlefield migrates to our cities and skies. The fascism has arrived and it is all around us.

vixen99 9y ago
Wish I could upvote you more.
cremno 9y ago
Cultural Marxism isn't real. It's a Neo-Nazi conspiracy theory popularized by a right-wing terrorist. If fascism actually has arrived, you played a part in it. Your views on economic and social policies do too but propertarians like you don't understand fascism and reduce it to authoritarianism.
- vixen99 9y ago
  Thanks! Countless idiotic commentators who've been led astray. If only you had spoken up earlier we would have seen the truth. What a relief.
  - cremno 9y ago
    Your snark doesn't make my comment less true.
    - naturalgradient 9y ago
      His snark also does not make your comment true in the first place.
- marcoperaza 9y ago
  The term makes it sound more conspiratorial than it is. It’s simply Marx’s framework of power imbalance and exploitation applied directly to social relations. That’s in contrast to Marx’s use of those ideas: applying them directly to economic relations, and seeing social relations as merely as the superstructure of economic relations. “Critical theory” is a less loaded and more specific term, and there is no doubt that critical theory emerged from neo-Marxist thinkers of the Frankfurt School. There are certainly conspiracy theories about critical theory, but critical theory scholars themselves used to use the term “cultural Marxism”. Modern day radical feminism and identity politics is without a doubt philosophically grounded in critical theory.

DanBC 9y ago

> Last summer, Walker traveled from London to Syria, where he joined the Kurdish-led YPG militia in its fight against the so-called Islamic State What a fucking stupid title.

cpncrunch 9y ago
How so? The prosecution had nothing to do with syria. That helped his case.
- DanBC 9y ago
  The arrest had everything to do with his travel to Syria.
  - marcoperaza 9y ago
    What you're arrested for and what you're prosecuted for are really two totally separate issues. Arresting someone who fought in Syria is pretty reasonable. Finding out that they fought for the Western-backed "good guys" is a great reason to drop the charges, which they did. Charging him for owning a book is what they did too.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]

yardie 9y ago

If you don’t read the article and think the Intercept is being hyperbolic as they normally are. Rest assured the title is exactly what happened. Walker was charged under terrorism laws not for planning, conspiring, nor performing acts of terrorism. The prosecutor made the argument that possessing the book was an act of terrorism. A book he downloaded from the school library. Also equally available on the Amazon and downloadable from internet since the dawn of the WWW.

Silhouette 9y ago
We have some pretty scary laws on the books here in the UK, not least in terms of chilling effects. Those of us who support human rights and generally democratic and civilised society have always expressed concern about broad reach and excessive powers and lack of effective oversight. Unfortunately our voice is not loud enough when fear is the opposition, even if that fear is mostly irrational and stoked more by the government and media than the bad guys. Sometimes I wonder who is really causing the most damage in the first place these days.
petercooper 9y ago
If you don’t read the article and think the Intercept is being hyperbolic as they normally are. Rest assured the title is exactly what happened. .. with the minor addition that he was initially arrested upon returning from helping a militia in the Middle East.
- tim333 9y ago
  Though an anti ISIL militia backed by the US, other western nations and Russia. 'The YPG is regarded as the "most effective" force in fighting ISIL in Syria' according to Wikipedia. I dare say Erdogan hates the YPG which is probably why the Brits have to be a bit half hearted in their backing. Got to think of the arms exports after all https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/22/uk-arms-sales-turkey-rights-abuse https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/22/uk-arms-sales-...
  - petercooper 9y ago

phkahler 9y ago

This stood out for me: >> It was an issue of “personal responsibility,” he said, and it was the government’s view that possessing the book was unlawful, because it could be useful to terrorists. The prosecution claimed it's about personal responsibility while trying to enforce a law that seems to deny people are entitled or able to exercise such a thing.

solo1717 9y ago

The UK govt is an absolute joke when it comes to justice. Bunch of self righteous cunts, mostly old decrepit females, ruining people's lives so they feel better about themselves. Meanwhile real criminals and terrorists are ignored completely.

marcoperaza 9y ago

Not surprising for a country that arrests people for tweeting criticism of Islam.

hellbanner 9y ago
Or shuts down public talks and harasses the family of someone who criticizes islamic attacks in the UK. State: "Don't do your talk, it might make the muslims mad and we don't want a riot" Either they are A) cowering, and the terrorists have won by censoring free speech from perceived threat of attack or B) UK government is infiltrated and having their strings pulled. Maybe this has to do with them leaving the EU? Test out how the new censorship laws work away from the EU
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
DanBC 9y ago
No one has been arrested for tweeting criticism of Islam.
- marcoperaza 9y ago
  >No one has been arrested for tweeting criticism of Islam. You’re simply wrong. https://mobile.twitter.com/sussex_police/status/877110502350098432 https://mobile.twitter.com/sussex_police/status/877110502350... https://mobile.twitter.com/wiltshirepolice/status/889585359297945602 https://mobile.twitter.com/wiltshirepolice/status/8895853592... http://www.businessinsider.com/in-britain-police-arrest-twitter-and-facebook-users-if-they-make-anti-muslim-statements-2013-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/in-britain-police-arrest-twit... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-f... http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/as-katie-hopkins-brands-muslims-these-sods-in-wake-of-terror-arrest_uk_5902dc56e4b05c39767d6cd9 http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/as-katie-hopkins-brand...
  - 9y ago