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Which ideas in the book do you think are toxic? And how can an idea be toxic? If you consider an idea, evaluate it in its full context, and conclude that it i

by abtinf 9y ago

Which ideas in the book do you think are toxic? And how can an idea be toxic? If you consider an idea, evaluate it in its full context, and conclude that it is true, then you can accept it and live a better life. If you reject the idea, you don't have to think about it anymore. There is no way for an idea, by itself, to harm you.

kennywinker 9y ago
> There is no way for an idea, by itself, to harm you. Totally false. Ask an ex catholic. > If you consider an idea, evaluate it in its full context, That's the problem - you can't honestly evaluate an idea in its full context. Ever. You have a limited ability, and there is limited information, and you have biases built in. In my mind, toxic ideas are ones that prey on our frailties - fear, anger, pride, etc. - and cause us to believe socially or personally harmful things. Fascism is a toxic idea. National socialism is a toxic idea. Puritanism is a toxic idea. Etc.
- abtinf 9y ago
  If you can't honestly evaluate ideas, how do you know that you are right about any of your views? How do you know that pride is a frailty? What kind of standard could you even apply to decide "harm" or "benefit" of an idea?
  - kennywinker 9y ago
    Indeed, you can't know anything for sure. That's logically true, but a totally pointless dead end. Backing away from that so we can have a useful conversation - I guess when I talk about toxic ideas I'm thinking something like Trump's "fake news" declarations. We can study it and... within' reasonable bounds, know that it's a distortion of reality. Of course not all news is 100% accurate, and all news comes with politics attached - why was this reported not that, etc. but calling the new york times "fake news" is just wrong. If we analyze things in a deep and unbiased way we can be fairly sure they are mostly acting in good faith with the goal of telling the truth. But it's a toxic idea - if we don't have the time, inclination or critical skills to break it down, it can prey on people's mistrust of intellectualism and stereotypes about the media. If you believe it even a little bit it undermines any and all criticism of Trump no matter how valid. Which allows him to dance around the normal check on democracy that the media is supposed to be. To conclude: I don't know that pride is a frailty that can be exploited by a toxic idea to cause harm, but that's the way the world looks from here so that's how I conduct myself.
    - abtinf 9y ago
      Since you seem to be interested in ideas, in how we know things, and how ideas can impact the degree to which we flourish in life, I will suggest two books to you that made a lot of sense to me. https://www.amazon.com/Objectivism-Philosophy-Ayn-Rand-Library/dp/0452011019 https://www.amazon.com/Objectivism-Philosophy-Ayn-Rand-Libra... https://www.amazon.com/How-Know-Epistemology-Objectivist-Foundation/dp/1493753142 https://www.amazon.com/How-Know-Epistemology-Objectivist-Fou...

by abtinf 9y ago

kennywinker 9y ago

> There is no way for an idea, by itself, to harm you. Totally false. Ask an ex catholic. > If you consider an idea, evaluate it in its full context, That's the problem - you can't honestly evaluate an idea in its full context. Ever. You have a limited ability, and there is limited information, and you have biases built in. In my mind, toxic ideas are ones that prey on our frailties - fear, anger, pride, etc. - and cause us to believe socially or personally harmful things. Fascism is a toxic idea. National socialism is a toxic idea. Puritanism is a toxic idea. Etc.

abtinf 9y ago
If you can't honestly evaluate ideas, how do you know that you are right about any of your views? How do you know that pride is a frailty? What kind of standard could you even apply to decide "harm" or "benefit" of an idea?
- kennywinker 9y ago
  Indeed, you can't know anything for sure. That's logically true, but a totally pointless dead end. Backing away from that so we can have a useful conversation - I guess when I talk about toxic ideas I'm thinking something like Trump's "fake news" declarations. We can study it and... within' reasonable bounds, know that it's a distortion of reality. Of course not all news is 100% accurate, and all news comes with politics attached - why was this reported not that, etc. but calling the new york times "fake news" is just wrong. If we analyze things in a deep and unbiased way we can be fairly sure they are mostly acting in good faith with the goal of telling the truth. But it's a toxic idea - if we don't have the time, inclination or critical skills to break it down, it can prey on people's mistrust of intellectualism and stereotypes about the media. If you believe it even a little bit it undermines any and all criticism of Trump no matter how valid. Which allows him to dance around the normal check on democracy that the media is supposed to be. To conclude: I don't know that pride is a frailty that can be exploited by a toxic idea to cause harm, but that's the way the world looks from here so that's how I conduct myself.
  - abtinf 9y ago
    Since you seem to be interested in ideas, in how we know things, and how ideas can impact the degree to which we flourish in life, I will suggest two books to you that made a lot of sense to me. https://www.amazon.com/Objectivism-Philosophy-Ayn-Rand-Library/dp/0452011019 https://www.amazon.com/Objectivism-Philosophy-Ayn-Rand-Libra... https://www.amazon.com/How-Know-Epistemology-Objectivist-Foundation/dp/1493753142 https://www.amazon.com/How-Know-Epistemology-Objectivist-Fou...