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As an American, I am automatically suspicious of any claim that video of a cop beating someone has been faked. While we do tend to think that our cops are the

As an American, I am automatically suspicious of any claim that video of a cop beating someone has been faked. While we do tend to think that our cops are the best in the world at being unnecessarily violent against suspects, especially minorities and pet dogs, we are aware that cops in other countries are also capable of lesser brutality. Except in Scandinavia, where suspects are ordered into the comfy chair, offered the hot tea, told they have been very naughty, and given actual help towards not repeating their crimes--and that somehow actually works for them.~ We have a nationwide protest movement organized entirely around the suspiciously-high number of black men dying during police encounters or while in police custody. And every time, the video comes out, and the police say, "That isn't what it looks like. It was entirely justified use of force. We investigated ourselves thoroughly, and cleared ourselves of all wrongdoing. Thoroughly." If an American cop can kill someone for "taking a fighting stance" and "moving a hand toward his waistband," I can consider that maybe Spanish cops might punch someone in the face for committing an overt and obvious act of rebellion against their national government, participating in an event that could sunder the political tranquility of the entire country. It might even be a really strong punch--like, enough to leave a bruise for a few days.~ Half of the U.S. is horrified at the idea of people getting physically attacked for the act of voting. The other half is sorely disappointed at the lack of blood in the streets. There may be some overlap. Anyway, in the U.S., the police tell blatant and obvious lies whenever they get caught on camera doing something terrible. The cop-cheerleaders believe the lies without hesitation, and the cop-haters don't believe anything a cop says, regardless of the subject. So the only way to really counter video evidence is with more video evidence, from a different angle. All referees and umpires are blind when the call is against our team, but we will grudgingly accept video review of the play. All I have seen is the original video. I haven't seen the video showing how they faked those videos. In the absence of any such evidence, my default assumption is that the official government story is deliberately crafted prevarication.

pvaldes 9y ago
> how they faked those videos. 1) challenge police for two or three hours or directly harass them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VochqAemgP0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VochqAemgP0 2) keep the challenge until triggering a reaction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0GwYEfTgzw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0GwYEfTgzw 3) Good job, now film it 4) Upload the parts that support your discourse to internet, carefully hiding half of the history
- logfromblammo 9y ago
  So you are not disputing that the people who appear to be police are genuinely police, or that they actually engaged in violence against people engaged in a (nominally) peaceful protest against the authority of the national government? If a real cop really hit a person, and that resulted in real injury, that's not a fake video. I think it's impressive that a Spanish cop can hold out for two hours of continuous abuse before breaking, but again, I'm used to American cops. Quite a lot of ours can maintain a professional demeanor for an entire shift of continual public abuse, maybe even for several days in a row, as might occur in a G20 protest or similar, but we also have some who will retaliate for frowning at them, or giving them "dehumanizing looks". Sometimes all it takes is just being there while black, or pointing a camera in their general direction. The international--or at least Western European--expectation for police, as I understand it, is that a cop never breaks down and assaults a person who is not already violent or otherwise endangering the public, regardless of how unpleasant they may be in their non-violence. I'm pretty sure that would never work here. If you can't occasionally gun down a man in the streets just for looking at you funny, how can you expect to generate that pervading aura of absolute terror that keeps everyone nervously polite and law-abiding the rest of the time you're around?~ I'm sorry to tell you that cutting out the three hours of tension prior to the most-viewed portion of the video does not actually debunk it. You'll need to show one of the following: - The police in the videos were not real police. - The apparent victims became violent prior to the start of the video. - The apparent victims were not as injured as they appeared to be. If the video does show a real person assaulted and battered by a real cop for no reason considered valid under any theory of the ethical use of force, I don't know how you can realistically claim that it is fake or debunked. Good cops don't punch peaceful people in any country, no matter how rude or angry they get. They don't even punch the notorious criminals. They use the minimum amount of force necessary to preserve the peace, and do not allow their personal emotions to interfere with that duty.
  - pvaldes 9y ago
    > The apparent victims were not as injured as they appeared to be "Policemen broke deliberately all my fingers one to one and throw me down the stairs". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYl054MItd8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYl054MItd8 Video shows later that policemen grab her by the right hand. For some reason the bandage is in her left hand. Hospital report explained later that one finger was "sored", I don't know the exact term for capsulitis in english but is not "broken". The other nine were, fortunately, fine. I let you to decide how to calificate the stairs part claim. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zBwNifMxYg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zBwNifMxYg

pvaldes 9y ago

> how they faked those videos. 1) challenge police for two or three hours or directly harass them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VochqAemgP0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VochqAemgP0 2) keep the challenge until triggering a reaction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0GwYEfTgzw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0GwYEfTgzw 3) Good job, now film it 4) Upload the parts that support your discourse to internet, carefully hiding half of the history

logfromblammo 9y ago
So you are not disputing that the people who appear to be police are genuinely police, or that they actually engaged in violence against people engaged in a (nominally) peaceful protest against the authority of the national government? If a real cop really hit a person, and that resulted in real injury, that's not a fake video. I think it's impressive that a Spanish cop can hold out for two hours of continuous abuse before breaking, but again, I'm used to American cops. Quite a lot of ours can maintain a professional demeanor for an entire shift of continual public abuse, maybe even for several days in a row, as might occur in a G20 protest or similar, but we also have some who will retaliate for frowning at them, or giving them "dehumanizing looks". Sometimes all it takes is just being there while black, or pointing a camera in their general direction. The international--or at least Western European--expectation for police, as I understand it, is that a cop never breaks down and assaults a person who is not already violent or otherwise endangering the public, regardless of how unpleasant they may be in their non-violence. I'm pretty sure that would never work here. If you can't occasionally gun down a man in the streets just for looking at you funny, how can you expect to generate that pervading aura of absolute terror that keeps everyone nervously polite and law-abiding the rest of the time you're around?~ I'm sorry to tell you that cutting out the three hours of tension prior to the most-viewed portion of the video does not actually debunk it. You'll need to show one of the following: - The police in the videos were not real police. - The apparent victims became violent prior to the start of the video. - The apparent victims were not as injured as they appeared to be. If the video does show a real person assaulted and battered by a real cop for no reason considered valid under any theory of the ethical use of force, I don't know how you can realistically claim that it is fake or debunked. Good cops don't punch peaceful people in any country, no matter how rude or angry they get. They don't even punch the notorious criminals. They use the minimum amount of force necessary to preserve the peace, and do not allow their personal emotions to interfere with that duty.
- pvaldes 9y ago
  > The apparent victims were not as injured as they appeared to be "Policemen broke deliberately all my fingers one to one and throw me down the stairs". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYl054MItd8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYl054MItd8 Video shows later that policemen grab her by the right hand. For some reason the bandage is in her left hand. Hospital report explained later that one finger was "sored", I don't know the exact term for capsulitis in english but is not "broken". The other nine were, fortunately, fine. I let you to decide how to calificate the stairs part claim. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zBwNifMxYg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zBwNifMxYg