6 ms·

VetPronto is being euthanized

35 points by howsilly 9y ago

sna1l 9y ago
This post is very inline with what I experienced with VetPronto, and I wondered how they remained in business. I've used VetPronto a couple times and the only value they really provided over regular vets is that you could get an appointment same day and they would come to your home. Because they didn't have mobile labs, you would have to wait days to get back results, while at the regular vet, you would have the results in a couple of hours. The VetPronto vets were always very nice and knowledgeable but the cost premium was way too much. Our vet in SF charges ~65 for a visit, while VetPronto was around ~200.
Johnny555 9y ago
Non fungible service provider — Most pet owners believe that they need to see a certain vet, usually the ‘best’ one in their area or the one they previously saw. It's a healthcare provider, of course people want to see someone they "know". And it's not just the humans that like to stick with a certain vet, but the dogs too. We went through several vets until we found one our dog liked (well, at least he didn't hate).
- _rpd 9y ago
  This is an interesting comment though ... > We believed that the veterinarian is the most trusted partner for a pet parent (vs. the walker, grooming, trainer) and that owning the vet relationship would create the most value. We have since learned that more value may lie in the networks that have higher frequency (i.e. walking, grooming, boarding, etc.) I wonder whether it would have worked to develop trust at walking, grooming, etc, and then try to upsell to vet services?
  - otsei54rceou 9y ago
    I'm skeptical it would have. They say at one point in their article: >The more successful marketplace businesses (i.e. Uber, Postmates, Instacart, Rover) I chuckled at the inclusion of Rover.com in there. I don't know whether they're successful or not, but I have used their service and hate everything about it. I found the one pet sitter that I ever want to use for my dog, and I no longer have any real need for Rover. But because I found the sitter through them, I now have this useless third party inserted into all my transactions with the sitter, and they often screw it up. (My messages to the sitter either don't go through, don't go through quickly, or go through but are garbled.) I'm under the impression that rover isn't doing too well because I'm starting to see the annoying little upsells and desperate growth hacking attempts every time I log in. There's the "tell other people about us and we'll give you a discount," pop overs when trying to perform a transaction. There's little 2 and 3 dollar add-ons suggested at every step. There's the constant attempts to get you to give them more information in every interaction. (You know the ones, "Your profile is only 72% complete - click to complete it!") Frankly, the only service I want is a 1-time flat fee finding service for the actual providers. I don't know if they could make money at that, and I don't care. But I actively avoid rover whenever possible because it removes value from the proposition for me.
- Finnucane 9y ago
  The continuity matters. Our vet remembers our cats from one visit to the next. They're not just a note on a card (though of course they have those too). So it is like your own doctor, in that once you have a relationship that works for you, there is a high bar to change it.
  - TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
    It wasn't until I had some extended dental work and had to wait around a dental surgery for half a day that I realised just how useful a good memory is for health practitioners. Of course they have notes. But it's so much easier and more reassuring to remember key facts about patients beyond the immediate medical issues. It's also easy to forget they see a lot of patients - every day. So being able to remember names, relationships, interests and prior sessions with hundreds of patients - all the social glue that makes non-trivial reassuring smalltalk possible - is a hugely useful skill.
    - goldenkey 9y ago
      When I studied psychiatry there was a huge emphasis on what's known as "rapport" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapport https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapport
pklausler 9y ago
If they're willing to make fun of one of the saddest experiences a pet owner will have in order to try to construct a cute title for an article, I'm not going to click the link.
sudosteph 9y ago
I wonder why they didn't try to pivot towards selling all that in-house software they built out to clinics directly. I'm sure some of it would have been useful. Also, presumably pet health records wouldn't have the same constraints of HIPAA, so it would be easier to scale and use a generic subscription SaaS model than if they had been making a human medical record company. I can't speak to the quality of most available vet software today, but as a client, I would love to have my pets medical info in one place. Especially because I have relationships with both a local, general vet, and a specialist after my older cat got diagnosed with lymphoma. It was hard to even get those clinics on the same page at first since they were faxing ultrasounds around, and I'm still not sure if all records through. I have no way to verify. At best, I'll receive a PDF after a visit with some test results. But I don't have a comprehensive set of records online anyhwhere. Maybe that space is already saturated or vet clinics don't have much incentive to pay for it. Still, I switched to a doctor with a better online records system (not based on the system alone though) and it definitely makes me happier with the service and less likely to switch again.
- tomkarlo 9y ago
  Vet practice management software (Saas) is a pretty competitive field already. If you think about it, if someone has built a platform for traditional MD / GP practices, it's fairly trivial to turn around and also offer it to vets. The bigger challenge is probably getting them to switch off their legacy paper systems.
  - snapetom 9y ago
    Hardly anyone is paper anymore. There's a lot of vet management software, but really only two that matter - Cornerstone and IDEXX. All the vet schools use one or the other, and so do the vast majority of large vet clinics and corporations where young vets get their first jobs. If they ever start their own practice, they've already gotten use to Cornerstone/IDEXX, so there's no reason for them to switch. There's little demand from clients to see their records online or transfer their records electronically. Sorry, HN crowd, but that's just the way it is with non-techies. The practices that do offer it use a number of third party integration services. However, the demand is so low, those companies hardly make any money because they can't charge very much.
codingdave 9y ago
It sounds like they didn't really research their industry deeply enough - because recurring revenue to veterinary providers comes from from agriculture. Who is going to need more vet support -- a homeowner who owns a cat or a dog or two, or a hobby farmer with 6 horses and a few goats, even ranches with livestock? In particular if you add on the non-medical services that small farms tend to need done a few times a year, but the new hobby farmers of the world haven't yet picked up the skills/tools to do it -- Disbudding goats, shearing sheep, etc. In particular if the business model already is based on home visits, the small ag market just makes more sense.
- dhosek 9y ago
  Farm veterinary care is generally on-site. You're not going to load up your sick bull in a trailer and sit with it in the waiting room of the vet's office, the vet comes out to the farm already.
  - mr337 9y ago
    This is spot on, only time we drove an large cow/bull to the vet was when their onsite vet was out or busy with other clients. (Think winter when some farmers don't properly time and have calfs hitting snow)
- x0x0 9y ago
  Farriers and similar businesses are very common in farming communities, and they all come to the farm.
microtherion 9y ago
The wording of that article is in rather poor taste. If they wanted to use that metaphor, they could at least have written "VetPronto is being sent to a nice farm in the country"
- Danihan 9y ago
  Agreed, I thought it was pretty callous and I'm generally pretty thick-skinned. I like your title a lot better. VetPronto Being Put Out to Pasture.
- Confiks 9y ago
  I understand 'euthanization' may be a sad process, and it might have very negative connotations especially in American culture. It is however sometimes the best available choice to make, as it probably was the best choice to end their startup. It also might serve as a hint to the emotional connection they formed while building their enterprise. You could view euthanization as desirable and good. As mournful and difficult, but good nevertheless. And considering humans specifically, of your own choice, under the supervision of a team of supportive physicians (and friends and family).
  - derelk 9y ago
    Respectfully, you're missing the point. It is often the best (and only, in my mind) choice, and it is always sad. It's not the word or even the concept that's the problem. Using it in a post about euthanasia is fine; using it as callous euphemism for shutting down your business is pretty terrible.
- derelk 9y ago
  Definitely agree. I just had to euthanize my beloved dog two days ago and reading that truly hurt. Between that and several aspects of the post other commenters have already pointed out, it doesn't seem like these people had a very good understanding of pet owners or pet ownership.
dhosek 9y ago
Reading the article, what I got more than anything else, is that the owners did not understand veterinary care. The biggest source of income for vets is the springtime heartworm season when they will see every dog in their practice for preventative care. That they seemed to plan around non-routine care was problematic. Also, there are plenty of vets already who do in-home care (including my brother before he bought his vet hospital and two of my ex-girlfriends)--they generally charge LESS than the clinic does for the care, not more, since they have less overhead.
- pmiller2 9y ago
  I agree. I got my friend (who's a medical resident and doesn't have a ton of time, but has an awesome dog) a subscription to Fuzzy. They do exactly what you're suggesting with preventive care. Their service includes an in-home well pet exam and all the vaccines, flea/tick and heartworm medication the pet will need until their next preventative visit. Obviously, outside of a clinic with equipment, they're not really able to do anything too involved: giving vaccines and taking blood/stool samples is about the limit, but that's all that's necessary for a healthy pet. We had a good experience, and my friend's dog loved the vet and the assistant who came to examine him. I think the pricing was similar to what it would have cost for an in-office appointment.
- tgarv 9y ago
  How did you feel when your brother bought two of your ex-girlfriends? Must have been awkward! Sorry, I'll go back to reddit now...
- x0x0 9y ago
  Where are you? In most of CA are on heartgard year round. Or is there some other prep for heartworm season?
- djrogers 9y ago
  > The biggest source of income for vets is the springtime heartworm season Pretty sure that's a pretty regional thing - my pets, and all of the others I see at my vet office, are on heartworm meds year round, and there's never once been a 'spring heart worm season' appointment....
cmurf 9y ago
Might sound a little morbid, but one of the best things about having a vet that made regular house calls as my dog was aging, was when it came time to euthanize him. It happened in his home, instead of at a vet clinic.
huac 9y ago
"Additionally, we had run some (statistically insignificant) experiments suggesting clients weren’t price sensitive regarding home based vet care. " I, uh, don't know if this is the right way to pick your market.
- chris_wot 9y ago
  That was his point.
djrogers 9y ago
Interesting look-back. I'm not sure I agree with this point though" >Not inherently social — Most people don’t like talking about medical care. We usually come into a person’s life when their pet is sick. The client is experiencing a range of unpleasant emotions (stress, worry, etc.). Even if we provide an amazing experience, there is still some negativity associated with our service. I believe that this negativity limits the virality of a health care service. Warning - anecdote ahead. When we had a pet that was suffering and nearing the end of his life, I had to take him in to be put down. We hadn't used the vet I took him to before, but the way they handled him (and me) not only won them a customer for life, but my wife recommends them to everyone she can - all because of the worst possible experience one can have with a vet.
tim333 9y ago
Cached: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:p5ROnGYeQX8J:https://blog.usejournal.com/vetpronto-is-being-euthanized-1ab19c081629+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:p5ROnG...

35 points by howsilly 9y ago

This post is very inline with what I experienced with VetPronto, and I wondered how they remained in business. I've used VetPronto a couple times and the only value they really provided over regular vets is that you could get an appointment same day and they would come to your home. Because they didn't have mobile labs, you would have to wait days to get back results, while at the regular vet, you would have the results in a couple of hours. The VetPronto vets were always very nice and knowledgeable but the cost premium was way too much. Our vet in SF charges ~65 for a visit, while VetPronto was around ~200.

Johnny555 9y ago

Non fungible service provider — Most pet owners believe that they need to see a certain vet, usually the ‘best’ one in their area or the one they previously saw. It's a healthcare provider, of course people want to see someone they "know". And it's not just the humans that like to stick with a certain vet, but the dogs too. We went through several vets until we found one our dog liked (well, at least he didn't hate).

_rpd 9y ago
This is an interesting comment though ... > We believed that the veterinarian is the most trusted partner for a pet parent (vs. the walker, grooming, trainer) and that owning the vet relationship would create the most value. We have since learned that more value may lie in the networks that have higher frequency (i.e. walking, grooming, boarding, etc.) I wonder whether it would have worked to develop trust at walking, grooming, etc, and then try to upsell to vet services?
- otsei54rceou 9y ago
  I'm skeptical it would have. They say at one point in their article: >The more successful marketplace businesses (i.e. Uber, Postmates, Instacart, Rover) I chuckled at the inclusion of Rover.com in there. I don't know whether they're successful or not, but I have used their service and hate everything about it. I found the one pet sitter that I ever want to use for my dog, and I no longer have any real need for Rover. But because I found the sitter through them, I now have this useless third party inserted into all my transactions with the sitter, and they often screw it up. (My messages to the sitter either don't go through, don't go through quickly, or go through but are garbled.) I'm under the impression that rover isn't doing too well because I'm starting to see the annoying little upsells and desperate growth hacking attempts every time I log in. There's the "tell other people about us and we'll give you a discount," pop overs when trying to perform a transaction. There's little 2 and 3 dollar add-ons suggested at every step. There's the constant attempts to get you to give them more information in every interaction. (You know the ones, "Your profile is only 72% complete - click to complete it!") Frankly, the only service I want is a 1-time flat fee finding service for the actual providers. I don't know if they could make money at that, and I don't care. But I actively avoid rover whenever possible because it removes value from the proposition for me.
Finnucane 9y ago
The continuity matters. Our vet remembers our cats from one visit to the next. They're not just a note on a card (though of course they have those too). So it is like your own doctor, in that once you have a relationship that works for you, there is a high bar to change it.
- TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
  It wasn't until I had some extended dental work and had to wait around a dental surgery for half a day that I realised just how useful a good memory is for health practitioners. Of course they have notes. But it's so much easier and more reassuring to remember key facts about patients beyond the immediate medical issues. It's also easy to forget they see a lot of patients - every day. So being able to remember names, relationships, interests and prior sessions with hundreds of patients - all the social glue that makes non-trivial reassuring smalltalk possible - is a hugely useful skill.
  - goldenkey 9y ago
    When I studied psychiatry there was a huge emphasis on what's known as "rapport" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapport https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapport

pklausler 9y ago

If they're willing to make fun of one of the saddest experiences a pet owner will have in order to try to construct a cute title for an article, I'm not going to click the link.

sudosteph 9y ago

I wonder why they didn't try to pivot towards selling all that in-house software they built out to clinics directly. I'm sure some of it would have been useful. Also, presumably pet health records wouldn't have the same constraints of HIPAA, so it would be easier to scale and use a generic subscription SaaS model than if they had been making a human medical record company. I can't speak to the quality of most available vet software today, but as a client, I would love to have my pets medical info in one place. Especially because I have relationships with both a local, general vet, and a specialist after my older cat got diagnosed with lymphoma. It was hard to even get those clinics on the same page at first since they were faxing ultrasounds around, and I'm still not sure if all records through. I have no way to verify. At best, I'll receive a PDF after a visit with some test results. But I don't have a comprehensive set of records online anyhwhere. Maybe that space is already saturated or vet clinics don't have much incentive to pay for it. Still, I switched to a doctor with a better online records system (not based on the system alone though) and it definitely makes me happier with the service and less likely to switch again.

tomkarlo 9y ago
Vet practice management software (Saas) is a pretty competitive field already. If you think about it, if someone has built a platform for traditional MD / GP practices, it's fairly trivial to turn around and also offer it to vets. The bigger challenge is probably getting them to switch off their legacy paper systems.
- snapetom 9y ago
  Hardly anyone is paper anymore. There's a lot of vet management software, but really only two that matter - Cornerstone and IDEXX. All the vet schools use one or the other, and so do the vast majority of large vet clinics and corporations where young vets get their first jobs. If they ever start their own practice, they've already gotten use to Cornerstone/IDEXX, so there's no reason for them to switch. There's little demand from clients to see their records online or transfer their records electronically. Sorry, HN crowd, but that's just the way it is with non-techies. The practices that do offer it use a number of third party integration services. However, the demand is so low, those companies hardly make any money because they can't charge very much.

codingdave 9y ago

It sounds like they didn't really research their industry deeply enough - because recurring revenue to veterinary providers comes from from agriculture. Who is going to need more vet support -- a homeowner who owns a cat or a dog or two, or a hobby farmer with 6 horses and a few goats, even ranches with livestock? In particular if you add on the non-medical services that small farms tend to need done a few times a year, but the new hobby farmers of the world haven't yet picked up the skills/tools to do it -- Disbudding goats, shearing sheep, etc. In particular if the business model already is based on home visits, the small ag market just makes more sense.

dhosek 9y ago
Farm veterinary care is generally on-site. You're not going to load up your sick bull in a trailer and sit with it in the waiting room of the vet's office, the vet comes out to the farm already.
- mr337 9y ago
  This is spot on, only time we drove an large cow/bull to the vet was when their onsite vet was out or busy with other clients. (Think winter when some farmers don't properly time and have calfs hitting snow)
x0x0 9y ago
Farriers and similar businesses are very common in farming communities, and they all come to the farm.

microtherion 9y ago

The wording of that article is in rather poor taste. If they wanted to use that metaphor, they could at least have written "VetPronto is being sent to a nice farm in the country"

Danihan 9y ago
Agreed, I thought it was pretty callous and I'm generally pretty thick-skinned. I like your title a lot better. VetPronto Being Put Out to Pasture.
Confiks 9y ago
I understand 'euthanization' may be a sad process, and it might have very negative connotations especially in American culture. It is however sometimes the best available choice to make, as it probably was the best choice to end their startup. It also might serve as a hint to the emotional connection they formed while building their enterprise. You could view euthanization as desirable and good. As mournful and difficult, but good nevertheless. And considering humans specifically, of your own choice, under the supervision of a team of supportive physicians (and friends and family).
- derelk 9y ago
  Respectfully, you're missing the point. It is often the best (and only, in my mind) choice, and it is always sad. It's not the word or even the concept that's the problem. Using it in a post about euthanasia is fine; using it as callous euphemism for shutting down your business is pretty terrible.
derelk 9y ago
Definitely agree. I just had to euthanize my beloved dog two days ago and reading that truly hurt. Between that and several aspects of the post other commenters have already pointed out, it doesn't seem like these people had a very good understanding of pet owners or pet ownership.

dhosek 9y ago

Reading the article, what I got more than anything else, is that the owners did not understand veterinary care. The biggest source of income for vets is the springtime heartworm season when they will see every dog in their practice for preventative care. That they seemed to plan around non-routine care was problematic. Also, there are plenty of vets already who do in-home care (including my brother before he bought his vet hospital and two of my ex-girlfriends)--they generally charge LESS than the clinic does for the care, not more, since they have less overhead.

pmiller2 9y ago
I agree. I got my friend (who's a medical resident and doesn't have a ton of time, but has an awesome dog) a subscription to Fuzzy. They do exactly what you're suggesting with preventive care. Their service includes an in-home well pet exam and all the vaccines, flea/tick and heartworm medication the pet will need until their next preventative visit. Obviously, outside of a clinic with equipment, they're not really able to do anything too involved: giving vaccines and taking blood/stool samples is about the limit, but that's all that's necessary for a healthy pet. We had a good experience, and my friend's dog loved the vet and the assistant who came to examine him. I think the pricing was similar to what it would have cost for an in-office appointment.
tgarv 9y ago
How did you feel when your brother bought two of your ex-girlfriends? Must have been awkward! Sorry, I'll go back to reddit now...
x0x0 9y ago
Where are you? In most of CA are on heartgard year round. Or is there some other prep for heartworm season?
djrogers 9y ago
> The biggest source of income for vets is the springtime heartworm season Pretty sure that's a pretty regional thing - my pets, and all of the others I see at my vet office, are on heartworm meds year round, and there's never once been a 'spring heart worm season' appointment....

cmurf 9y ago

Might sound a little morbid, but one of the best things about having a vet that made regular house calls as my dog was aging, was when it came time to euthanize him. It happened in his home, instead of at a vet clinic.

huac 9y ago

"Additionally, we had run some (statistically insignificant) experiments suggesting clients weren’t price sensitive regarding home based vet care. " I, uh, don't know if this is the right way to pick your market.

chris_wot 9y ago
That was his point.

djrogers 9y ago

Interesting look-back. I'm not sure I agree with this point though" >Not inherently social — Most people don’t like talking about medical care. We usually come into a person’s life when their pet is sick. The client is experiencing a range of unpleasant emotions (stress, worry, etc.). Even if we provide an amazing experience, there is still some negativity associated with our service. I believe that this negativity limits the virality of a health care service. Warning - anecdote ahead. When we had a pet that was suffering and nearing the end of his life, I had to take him in to be put down. We hadn't used the vet I took him to before, but the way they handled him (and me) not only won them a customer for life, but my wife recommends them to everyone she can - all because of the worst possible experience one can have with a vet.

tim333 9y ago

Cached: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:p5ROnGYeQX8J:https://blog.usejournal.com/vetpronto-is-being-euthanized-1ab19c081629+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:p5ROnG...