6 ms·
Let's be real for a minute. The reason this is as large of an issue is the same reason that there are very, very few peaceful secessions throughout history. E
by turc1656 9y ago
Let's be real for a minute. The reason this is as large of an issue is the same reason that there are very, very few peaceful secessions throughout history. Even then, "peaceful" is relative - there may not be full on war, but there are always "incidents". That reason is simple - there is no way to legally split from Spain. Things are specifically designed this way to always provide the ruling faction with the ability to claim a violation of the law has taken place and order must be restored. The same is true for the United States. There are defined rules for entities to become a member state. There is no mention anywhere in the US Constitution regarding whether or not a member state can leave the union, let alone what the process would be. An entire civil war was fought in the US over this issue.
Spain is clinging to the designed "lawlessness" that arises from any region wanting to leave it. Catalonia not being a part of Spain would substantially hurt Spain. Look at the numbers. 16% of the Spanish people live in Catalonia but they account for 19% of GDP. That 3% may not seem like a lot but when you do the math it comes out to mean that they are (((19/16)/(81/84))-1)*100=23.14% more productive than the rest of Spain in terms of GDP. That's massive. They also account for >25% of exports and 20% of foreign investment.
Catalonia acts as a monetary boost to the rest of Spain. And they believe they are being taken advantage of in this regard by Spain.
Think about it this way - what options did the Spanish government have even once the court declared the original vote a few weeks ago to be unlawful? They could have allowed the vote to go on, and simply declared the results invalid/non-official/meaningless. Or they could have done what they chose to do - apply violence. Why did they make this choice? Simple - they didn't want to see the results of the vote because then the entire world would know, with certainty, what % of the Catalan people actually voted "yes". With the numbers we do have, it's a hefty percentage, certainly not some small minority that is somehow manipulating parliament.
Spain doesn't want to lose the economic boost, nor does it want to lose the land and resources. However, one must ask themselves whether or not a people have the right to choose their own government. Shouldn't people have the right to decide that their current government simply isn't working for them and they choose a new one? We already have this in democratic nations when you look at the country as a whole - the country can decide that there is change needed and take action. Why should anything change when you are simply talking about a region of the country that no longer wants to be part of the whole? Don't they still have the right to self-determination, for better or worse? This isn't really about nationalists, right wingers, left wingers, or anything like that. This is about a simple concept that has deliberately been ignored by both historical and modern governments. If a process were in place, this could be non-violent and remove much of the uncertainty.
- alexandrerond 9y ago> certainly not some small minority that is somehow manipulating parliament. The Catalan nationalist parties won the elections. Everyone knows that they are a LOT of people (majority in most regions). There was no need send the police, unless you seek to look strong to your followers. Just like there was no need to declare the independence right now. Each party is forcing the other to the worst possible options.
- kgwgk 9y agoThey nationalist parties got more seats in the parliament, but didn't get a majority of votes. They also had some kind of urgency to declare the independence, because shortly after the election (in November 2015) they said it would be done in 18 months. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/11984516/Catalonias-parliament-votes-to-begin-setting-up-an-independent-state.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/11984...
- alexandrerond 9y agoKeep in mind that Barcelona (with 4 million people, many of them from other regions) is not as pro-independence as the rest. If you take it out of the equation, or look at results per county or town, the thing looks way different: https://datos.elconfidencial.com/map1-independentismo-cataluna-27s/#8/41.927/1.945 https://datos.elconfidencial.com/map1-independentismo-catalu... This map shows yellow where pro-independence parties got more vote than the others. The tragedy of Catalonia is that the most populated areas are way less pro-independence than the rest of the land. Thus, nationalists only got 48% of total votes, despite winning (clearly) in most counties.
- kgwgk 9y agoYes, if you ignore the people who is not pro-independence, then the independentism is a clear majority. Maybe the situation would be less tragic if those nationalist counties had tried to declare independence from the Tarragona-Barcelona arc, the Aran Valley and the rest of Spain. For sure it would be more comic. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia-union/a-split-within-a-split-the-catalan-valley-sticking-with-spain-idUSKBN1CE1D9 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia-...