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> And many died, were tortured or disappeared who did not bow their head low enough to the fascists. So one should not forget that long episode. Note that this

> And many died, were tortured or disappeared who did not bow their head low enough to the fascists. So one should not forget that long episode. Note that this happened all over Spain, it was not just Catalonia suffering this. > Spain also never had a denazification since Franco Spain has had a low-speed consolidation of its democratic system. It is important to realize that, even though slow, it is miraculous that Spain got out of such regime without bloodshed and successful coups (though one was attempted). The slow process is the price Spain paid for that. Believe me when I say Catalonia is not helping to get the fascists away from power. > The catalan language was allmost forbidden for quite some time! Resentment may fuel nationalist feelings, but makes a bad argument in the current setting. There are so many things to be resentful about in totalitarian regimes from 40 years ago...

hutzlibu 9y ago
"Note that this happened all over Spain, it was not just Catalonia suffering this." But they probably suffered much more than others. Definitely more than spanish thinking people. "Resentment may fuel nationalist feelings, but makes a bad argument in the current setting." It is not about resentment, but about the fear that those who suppressed the catalans still would do it, if they can. Openly or behind doors. And it seems that there is some truth to it, with police bashing unarmed people who just want to vote.
- pvaldes 9y ago
  > they probably suffered much more than others You must be joking... :-(
  - hutzlibu 9y ago
    Do you know the history of spain and the civil war? Even if not, don't you think it makes a difference for an area under spanish fascist rule, if most of the residents are pro spanish or if they are against it??
    - tirant 9y ago
      I know the history of Spain really well, being Catalan and with part of my ancestors assessinated by Franco's regime. Being pro-Spanish did not mean shit for Franco and the fascist regime. The rebelled against a perfectly pro-Spanish republican government. The assassinated millions of socialist, communist, anarchist who were pro Spanish. Big majority of catalans were also pro Spanish and suffered prosecution. But they supported a different Spain than the fascist/catholic nationalist Spain than Franco's side. They supported a plural, multinational Spain, where all national and regional feelings were respected and supported.
      - hutzlibu 9y ago
        "They supported a plural, multinational Spain, where all national and regional feelings were respected and supported." With pro-spanish I did not meant the "multinational Spain" variant. More pro spanish nation. (And I also think that "anarchist who were pro Spanish" ... were a pretty rare type of anarchists. Unless you only meant pro spanish language. But that is pobably nitpicking, which I feel is a bit inappropriate in this topic) So I still would think, that in general a spanish fascist would treat a spanish republican a bit better, than a catalan anarchist - but I don't think I should try to teach you your history. So I just stop and say, that I am very sorry for your family, as well.
    - pvaldes 9y ago
      I know very well the history of my family, yes. Please, take a look to this: http://mapadefosas.mjusticia.es/exovi_externo/CargarMapaFosas.htm http://mapadefosas.mjusticia.es/exovi_externo/CargarMapaFosa...
      - hutzlibu 9y ago
        Well, then I deeply apologize. My first reaction to your post was also thinking that you had emotional ties to it, but then I assumed you were just some internet guy with shallow knowledge. Well, wrong. I am the guy with shallow knowledge compared to you. Anyway, I still want to state, that I did not said that the catalans suffered the most, just "more than other areas". But I don't think I should say more on this. I am sorry for your family.

hutzlibu 9y ago

"Note that this happened all over Spain, it was not just Catalonia suffering this." But they probably suffered much more than others. Definitely more than spanish thinking people. "Resentment may fuel nationalist feelings, but makes a bad argument in the current setting." It is not about resentment, but about the fear that those who suppressed the catalans still would do it, if they can. Openly or behind doors. And it seems that there is some truth to it, with police bashing unarmed people who just want to vote.

pvaldes 9y ago
> they probably suffered much more than others You must be joking... :-(
- hutzlibu 9y ago
  Do you know the history of spain and the civil war? Even if not, don't you think it makes a difference for an area under spanish fascist rule, if most of the residents are pro spanish or if they are against it??
  - tirant 9y ago
    I know the history of Spain really well, being Catalan and with part of my ancestors assessinated by Franco's regime. Being pro-Spanish did not mean shit for Franco and the fascist regime. The rebelled against a perfectly pro-Spanish republican government. The assassinated millions of socialist, communist, anarchist who were pro Spanish. Big majority of catalans were also pro Spanish and suffered prosecution. But they supported a different Spain than the fascist/catholic nationalist Spain than Franco's side. They supported a plural, multinational Spain, where all national and regional feelings were respected and supported.
    - hutzlibu 9y ago
      "They supported a plural, multinational Spain, where all national and regional feelings were respected and supported." With pro-spanish I did not meant the "multinational Spain" variant. More pro spanish nation. (And I also think that "anarchist who were pro Spanish" ... were a pretty rare type of anarchists. Unless you only meant pro spanish language. But that is pobably nitpicking, which I feel is a bit inappropriate in this topic) So I still would think, that in general a spanish fascist would treat a spanish republican a bit better, than a catalan anarchist - but I don't think I should try to teach you your history. So I just stop and say, that I am very sorry for your family, as well.
  - pvaldes 9y ago
    I know very well the history of my family, yes. Please, take a look to this: http://mapadefosas.mjusticia.es/exovi_externo/CargarMapaFosas.htm http://mapadefosas.mjusticia.es/exovi_externo/CargarMapaFosa...
    - hutzlibu 9y ago
      Well, then I deeply apologize. My first reaction to your post was also thinking that you had emotional ties to it, but then I assumed you were just some internet guy with shallow knowledge. Well, wrong. I am the guy with shallow knowledge compared to you. Anyway, I still want to state, that I did not said that the catalans suffered the most, just "more than other areas". But I don't think I should say more on this. I am sorry for your family.