4 ms·

This mischaracterization is very common. The phallacy is framing the people against nationalism as nationalists. It's the same dirty trick as saying that atheis

by narag 9y ago

This mischaracterization is very common. The phallacy is framing the people against nationalism as nationalists. It's the same dirty trick as saying that atheism is just another kind of religion. Of course you add the "extreme-right" insult for good measure. Most people in Spain are not nationalists of any kind. That's just a lie. Nationalist votes are, being most generous under 10% of national grand total. People opposing to nationalism are just refusing the tribal bs. Whoever the winner of this fight is, it will be a sad day for Europe, because nationalism and national borders will have prevailed and this goes against everything we need to build a stronger and better EU. This nonsense we've been hearing for years: let them do whatever they want to do or else they win. WHAT?

alexandrerond 9y ago
I didn't frame anyone. I just said that the people calling the shots in this conflict are nationalists. In fact, I'm saying the majority of non-nationalistic people are just hostages in this fight, which are only good to convert more people to the cause.
- narag 9y ago
  No, the people in spanish gov are not nationalists. I have a lot of bad things to say against Rajoy but nationalist is not one. And no, non-nationalists are not hostages. We are sick and tired of nationalism and most of us would have wanted the government to react much sooner to the abuses, specially the non-nationalists living in Catalonia that are the ones that have suffered this situation more directly.
  - tirant 9y ago
    I don't know under what prism you do not consider the PP party not nationalists, when they are the direct successors of the Spanish National Catolicism movement that ruled Spain under Franco's dictatorship.
    - albertredneck 9y ago
      This is just your opinion, man. History is history and you cannot abuse it to explain everything. We know that already, history manipulation is one basic tool for every fascism ever.
    - narag 9y ago
      Do you know what? I was there, I saw the transition, I saw the people and I saw the evolution. What you say is not even wrong. It's just nonsense. PP is a standard conservative party, equivalent to Puigdemont's CiU (now PDCAT) and that has been in the government with the support of CiU for years, during Aznar times. PP turned a blind eye to catalonian nationalists' abuses when they needed them to keep power. Now they're starting to see the consequences. Rajoy must be the laziest prime minister the world has seen. He wouldn't move a finger without absolute need for it. Even in this dramatic situtation he has hold his breath until he was risking stiff penal prosecution for himself had he not acted!! Suggesting he is promoting the escalating is not only untrue, it's ridiculous.
- tassl 9y ago
  You are confusing independence with nationalism. You can be pro-independence without being nationalist.
mLuby 9y ago
Not to be a dick about it, but a fallacy is a mistaken belief while phalluses are penises. So a 'phallacy' might mean a mistaken penis, which is oddly self-referential. :P
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- narag 9y ago
  You should understand what they want to do us with it :)
cat199 9y ago
theology: speech about god atheism: speech about god atheism has a theology and is a belief system, therefore it is a religion. I'll reconsider my view when people routinely say 'oh reason' or 'oh science' while winning sport championships, hitting their knees in the dark, or having orgasms. in the meantime, my thesis is there is a reason something else comes out..
6t6t6t6 9y ago
> Most people in Spain are not nationalists of any kind. So, according to your point, the people who wants Catalans stay Spanish at any cost and tries to deny their right of a referendum are the "non nationalist". And the ones who are fed up of the BS of the Spanish government and just want to stop being Spanish are the Nationalist...
- narag 9y ago
  So, according to your point, the people who wants Catalans stay Spanish at any cost and tries to deny their right of a referendum are the "non nationalist". Catalans that want to be Spanish, I'm OK they stay Spanish. The rest I don't give a rat ass. Actually there's nothing preventing them NOW to give up citizenship and become citizens of whatever unsuspecting country that accepts them as nationals. If they want to steal a piece of my country to have their rave there, then we do have a problem

by narag 9y ago

alexandrerond 9y ago

I didn't frame anyone. I just said that the people calling the shots in this conflict are nationalists. In fact, I'm saying the majority of non-nationalistic people are just hostages in this fight, which are only good to convert more people to the cause.

narag 9y ago
No, the people in spanish gov are not nationalists. I have a lot of bad things to say against Rajoy but nationalist is not one. And no, non-nationalists are not hostages. We are sick and tired of nationalism and most of us would have wanted the government to react much sooner to the abuses, specially the non-nationalists living in Catalonia that are the ones that have suffered this situation more directly.
- tirant 9y ago
  I don't know under what prism you do not consider the PP party not nationalists, when they are the direct successors of the Spanish National Catolicism movement that ruled Spain under Franco's dictatorship.
  - albertredneck 9y ago
    This is just your opinion, man. History is history and you cannot abuse it to explain everything. We know that already, history manipulation is one basic tool for every fascism ever.
  - narag 9y ago
    Do you know what? I was there, I saw the transition, I saw the people and I saw the evolution. What you say is not even wrong. It's just nonsense. PP is a standard conservative party, equivalent to Puigdemont's CiU (now PDCAT) and that has been in the government with the support of CiU for years, during Aznar times. PP turned a blind eye to catalonian nationalists' abuses when they needed them to keep power. Now they're starting to see the consequences. Rajoy must be the laziest prime minister the world has seen. He wouldn't move a finger without absolute need for it. Even in this dramatic situtation he has hold his breath until he was risking stiff penal prosecution for himself had he not acted!! Suggesting he is promoting the escalating is not only untrue, it's ridiculous.
tassl 9y ago
You are confusing independence with nationalism. You can be pro-independence without being nationalist.

mLuby 9y ago

Not to be a dick about it, but a fallacy is a mistaken belief while phalluses are penises. So a 'phallacy' might mean a mistaken penis, which is oddly self-referential. :P

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
narag 9y ago
You should understand what they want to do us with it :)

cat199 9y ago

theology: speech about god atheism: speech about god atheism has a theology and is a belief system, therefore it is a religion. I'll reconsider my view when people routinely say 'oh reason' or 'oh science' while winning sport championships, hitting their knees in the dark, or having orgasms. in the meantime, my thesis is there is a reason something else comes out..

6t6t6t6 9y ago

> Most people in Spain are not nationalists of any kind. So, according to your point, the people who wants Catalans stay Spanish at any cost and tries to deny their right of a referendum are the "non nationalist". And the ones who are fed up of the BS of the Spanish government and just want to stop being Spanish are the Nationalist...

narag 9y ago
So, according to your point, the people who wants Catalans stay Spanish at any cost and tries to deny their right of a referendum are the "non nationalist". Catalans that want to be Spanish, I'm OK they stay Spanish. The rest I don't give a rat ass. Actually there's nothing preventing them NOW to give up citizenship and become citizens of whatever unsuspecting country that accepts them as nationals. If they want to steal a piece of my country to have their rave there, then we do have a problem