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Canadian perspective here. We also had our troubles with separatism. Back from the 60's till the late 90's Quebec had very good and valid reasons to separate f

Canadian perspective here. We also had our troubles with separatism. Back from the 60's till the late 90's Quebec had very good and valid reasons to separate from Canada, mostly because of prejudice against their language and culture. They came very close to separating from Canada in 2 referenda. A few things decreased these tensions: compromise, increased economic dependence, immigration and cultural change within Quebec. Canada conceded a lot of rights to Quebec and increased the use of French within the English speaking part of the country. The immigrants that arrived in Quebec didn't have the memory of past grievances. The Quebecois culture changed becoming more cosmopolitan and less Catholic (we call it "The Quiet Revolution"). After these changes, separatism is today a political liability in Quebec. Their separatist party only succeeds when they disguise their separatism.

gboudrias 9y ago
Hi, Québécois here. > very good and valid reasons to separate from Canada, mostly because of prejudice against their language and culture It's rare to see this acknowledged outside of Quebec, so, thanks. > increased the use of French within the English speaking part of the country It's important to note for the comparison that this has been eroded extremely quickly. Supreme court judges don't have to speak French, and the Supreme Court ruled (6-3) two years ago that provinces are not obliged to translate laws into French. The lesson here is don't take things for granted that aren't in the constitution. (I don't know how much language is an issue for Catalonia but I can only assume it's a part of it.) > The Quebecois culture changed becoming more cosmopolitan and less Catholic (we call it "The Quiet Revolution"). I don't think you meant to misdirect here, but the Quiet Revolution happened in the 60s, and is therefore not a consequence of the modern sovereigntist movements which lead up to the first referendum in 1980. > After these changes, separatism is today a political liability in Quebec. Their separatist party only succeeds when they disguise their separatism. It is still an issue, in the sense that some people will vote for the party most "likely" to hold a referendum. In practice, we all know the status quo is too profitable for any powerful party to attempt real change. It is also important to note that Quebec still very much feels like a different nation, to me at least, and we often diverge strongly on political issues related to culture. See this map from 2011: https://imgur.com/gallery/w3uoK9W https://imgur.com/gallery/w3uoK9W As long as this "two solitudes" phenomenon persists, the separatist movement will continue to exist. It is doubtful to me that there are any concessions on the part of Canada that could bridge this gap, but I'm certain that Spain is different, in that it could effectively have killed the whole affair with simple financial negotiations. In hindsight, the lack of openness to compromise was quite obviously a shortsighted decision.
kolbe 9y ago
The lesson here: allow the Chinese to create a real estate bubble, so your country can have the economic resources to placate and pay off places you've colonized. Within a decade of the Canadian real estate bubble pop, Quebec will be an independent nation. Mark my words.
- dang 9y ago
  Would you please stop posting flamebait and/or unsubstantive comments to Hacker News? We have enough trouble with flamewars as it is, and you've unfortunately been doing this quite a bit. If you'd read the guidelines and stick to them when commenting here, we'd appreciate it: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
  - kolbe 9y ago
    I presume this is just you and me talking right now, right? So, just man-to-man, how have I provided less substance than the comment I replied to? That comment was 100% opinion about causality, and that opinion left out an extraordinarily salient facts about other conditions with the Quebecois Separatist Movement and Canada in general. I understand if you dislike my tone, and if you want to purge this place of people who aren't as docile as you'd prefer, and that's obviously your decision. But I'm not trolling. I am like this. Prior to hitting post, I turned to a colleague who was reading that comment and called the previous commenter names that I did not include in my post. But that's what you get with me. I'm quite possibly the best participant on this board when it comes to fintech, and my job is to think out of the box. That may mean that I act outside of the box, too, and if you want this place to not include people like me, so be it.
  - kolbe 9y ago
    And by far the least substantiated and most insulting comment in many threads is you saying "flame" and "flamebait" all the time. This term does not have a very good definition. It's very hard for anyone to know what exactly it is that you're trying to regulate when you use such a vague and condescending colloquialism. And you do it in like half of your posts.

gboudrias 9y ago

Hi, Québécois here. > very good and valid reasons to separate from Canada, mostly because of prejudice against their language and culture It's rare to see this acknowledged outside of Quebec, so, thanks. > increased the use of French within the English speaking part of the country It's important to note for the comparison that this has been eroded extremely quickly. Supreme court judges don't have to speak French, and the Supreme Court ruled (6-3) two years ago that provinces are not obliged to translate laws into French. The lesson here is don't take things for granted that aren't in the constitution. (I don't know how much language is an issue for Catalonia but I can only assume it's a part of it.) > The Quebecois culture changed becoming more cosmopolitan and less Catholic (we call it "The Quiet Revolution"). I don't think you meant to misdirect here, but the Quiet Revolution happened in the 60s, and is therefore not a consequence of the modern sovereigntist movements which lead up to the first referendum in 1980. > After these changes, separatism is today a political liability in Quebec. Their separatist party only succeeds when they disguise their separatism. It is still an issue, in the sense that some people will vote for the party most "likely" to hold a referendum. In practice, we all know the status quo is too profitable for any powerful party to attempt real change. It is also important to note that Quebec still very much feels like a different nation, to me at least, and we often diverge strongly on political issues related to culture. See this map from 2011: https://imgur.com/gallery/w3uoK9W https://imgur.com/gallery/w3uoK9W As long as this "two solitudes" phenomenon persists, the separatist movement will continue to exist. It is doubtful to me that there are any concessions on the part of Canada that could bridge this gap, but I'm certain that Spain is different, in that it could effectively have killed the whole affair with simple financial negotiations. In hindsight, the lack of openness to compromise was quite obviously a shortsighted decision.

kolbe 9y ago

The lesson here: allow the Chinese to create a real estate bubble, so your country can have the economic resources to placate and pay off places you've colonized. Within a decade of the Canadian real estate bubble pop, Quebec will be an independent nation. Mark my words.

dang 9y ago
Would you please stop posting flamebait and/or unsubstantive comments to Hacker News? We have enough trouble with flamewars as it is, and you've unfortunately been doing this quite a bit. If you'd read the guidelines and stick to them when commenting here, we'd appreciate it: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- kolbe 9y ago
  I presume this is just you and me talking right now, right? So, just man-to-man, how have I provided less substance than the comment I replied to? That comment was 100% opinion about causality, and that opinion left out an extraordinarily salient facts about other conditions with the Quebecois Separatist Movement and Canada in general. I understand if you dislike my tone, and if you want to purge this place of people who aren't as docile as you'd prefer, and that's obviously your decision. But I'm not trolling. I am like this. Prior to hitting post, I turned to a colleague who was reading that comment and called the previous commenter names that I did not include in my post. But that's what you get with me. I'm quite possibly the best participant on this board when it comes to fintech, and my job is to think out of the box. That may mean that I act outside of the box, too, and if you want this place to not include people like me, so be it.
- kolbe 9y ago
  And by far the least substantiated and most insulting comment in many threads is you saying "flame" and "flamebait" all the time. This term does not have a very good definition. It's very hard for anyone to know what exactly it is that you're trying to regulate when you use such a vague and condescending colloquialism. And you do it in like half of your posts.