6 ms·

If you'll look at our history, there is no separation that happened peacefully. Historically speaking, an independence declaration is equivalent to a declarati

If you'll look at our history, there is no separation that happened peacefully. Historically speaking, an independence declaration is equivalent to a declaration of war. And Catalonia will receive no international support because all countries have regions with minorities that wished for independence at some point — well, except maybe from Russia, or other countries that want instability in the region.

smcl 9y ago
The Scottish Government might support them - it's not much (we're only a semi-autonomous nation within the UK, so not exactly an international heavyweight) but they're not completely alone
- tcard 9y ago
  [Removed. I had linked to a fake tweet.]
  - smcl 9y ago
    The Scottish first minister is called Nicola SturgEOn, not Nicola SturgOEn.
    - tcard 9y ago
      Ugh, thanks. I've edited my comment.
- vixen99 9y ago
  This is what they did actually say: 'Commenting on referendum on Catalonia’s constitutional position, Scottish Cabinet Secretary said: “The decision over Catalonia’s future direction is a matter for the people who live there, and the Catalan and Spanish Governments are perfectly entitled to take positions for and against independence. “However, all peoples have the right to self-determination and to choose the form of government best suited to their needs, a principle which is enshrined in the UN Charter. "The Edinburgh Agreement was an example of how two governments, with diametrically opposed views on whether or not Scotland should become independent, were able to come together to agree a process to allow the people to decide. It is essential that democracy and civil rights are respected in all countries.” ' https://news.gov.scot/news/statement-on-catalonia https://news.gov.scot/news/statement-on-catalonia
  - smcl 9y ago
    This is more in line with what I expected
dan_mctree 9y ago
The international/European response is not set in stone and could wildly vary based on the Spanish response. If they send in troops, and should those troops fire on civilians, the Spanish may well lose international support. They were heavily condemned just for their police actions around the referendum. There also aren't that many countries that have serious internal strife in the western world anyway, that point is always wildly overstated. The UK has independence movements but they've already allowed a referendum so they may not care. Belgium and Russia have some serious internal trouble, but the importance of their support may be too small to matter (and indeed Russia may encourage discord). France and Italy? But are their minorities really serious enough? What else is there? The vast majority of Europe will swing towards what has the best optics, as will the US. Sure they may pick stability first, but if that's out because of civil war, it becomes anyones guess.
- narag 9y ago
  The international/European response is not set in stone and could wildly vary based on the Spanish response. That's absolutely wrong. And thinking that Spain will need to fire on civilians is ridiculous. Either wishful thinking or you are ridiculously misinformed.
  - pjc50 9y ago
    It's very difficult to predict what will happen and there has been considerable restraint so far, but Spain also had an armed separatist group for years (ETA), and crowd management can go very wrong very quickly. The 2011 London riots were extremely severe and lasted three days, despite not really having any political basis or leadership, and there were plenty of rightwing politicians calling for military intervention.
    - narag 9y ago
      I have no crystal ball, but most of this people are just entitled rich kids. There are a few gangs in the movement that are used to organized violence, but most of the people shouting in the streets will not stand real mambo for five minutes. I do fear Russia involvement. Putin sent a messenger from South Osetia.
pjc50 9y ago
Who is "our" here? Have we forgotten Czechslovakia?
Raz2 9y ago
Speaking about Russia. It is funny that those who just start to remind that Russia is a federation are being detained. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/17/pro-federalism-protests-banned-siberia-russia-nine-activists-held https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/17/pro-federalism...

smcl 9y ago

The Scottish Government might support them - it's not much (we're only a semi-autonomous nation within the UK, so not exactly an international heavyweight) but they're not completely alone

tcard 9y ago
[Removed. I had linked to a fake tweet.]
- smcl 9y ago
  The Scottish first minister is called Nicola SturgEOn, not Nicola SturgOEn.
  - tcard 9y ago
    Ugh, thanks. I've edited my comment.
vixen99 9y ago
This is what they did actually say: 'Commenting on referendum on Catalonia’s constitutional position, Scottish Cabinet Secretary said: “The decision over Catalonia’s future direction is a matter for the people who live there, and the Catalan and Spanish Governments are perfectly entitled to take positions for and against independence. “However, all peoples have the right to self-determination and to choose the form of government best suited to their needs, a principle which is enshrined in the UN Charter. "The Edinburgh Agreement was an example of how two governments, with diametrically opposed views on whether or not Scotland should become independent, were able to come together to agree a process to allow the people to decide. It is essential that democracy and civil rights are respected in all countries.” ' https://news.gov.scot/news/statement-on-catalonia https://news.gov.scot/news/statement-on-catalonia
- smcl 9y ago
  This is more in line with what I expected

dan_mctree 9y ago

The international/European response is not set in stone and could wildly vary based on the Spanish response. If they send in troops, and should those troops fire on civilians, the Spanish may well lose international support. They were heavily condemned just for their police actions around the referendum. There also aren't that many countries that have serious internal strife in the western world anyway, that point is always wildly overstated. The UK has independence movements but they've already allowed a referendum so they may not care. Belgium and Russia have some serious internal trouble, but the importance of their support may be too small to matter (and indeed Russia may encourage discord). France and Italy? But are their minorities really serious enough? What else is there? The vast majority of Europe will swing towards what has the best optics, as will the US. Sure they may pick stability first, but if that's out because of civil war, it becomes anyones guess.

narag 9y ago
The international/European response is not set in stone and could wildly vary based on the Spanish response. That's absolutely wrong. And thinking that Spain will need to fire on civilians is ridiculous. Either wishful thinking or you are ridiculously misinformed.
- pjc50 9y ago
  It's very difficult to predict what will happen and there has been considerable restraint so far, but Spain also had an armed separatist group for years (ETA), and crowd management can go very wrong very quickly. The 2011 London riots were extremely severe and lasted three days, despite not really having any political basis or leadership, and there were plenty of rightwing politicians calling for military intervention.
  - narag 9y ago
    I have no crystal ball, but most of this people are just entitled rich kids. There are a few gangs in the movement that are used to organized violence, but most of the people shouting in the streets will not stand real mambo for five minutes. I do fear Russia involvement. Putin sent a messenger from South Osetia.

pjc50 9y ago

Who is "our" here? Have we forgotten Czechslovakia?

Raz2 9y ago

Speaking about Russia. It is funny that those who just start to remind that Russia is a federation are being detained. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/17/pro-federalism-protests-banned-siberia-russia-nine-activists-held https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/17/pro-federalism...