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You are allowed to vote to parties that want the secession and promise to vote for Constitution reform. The thing is people, even in Catalonia don't want indepe
by narag 9y ago
You are allowed to vote to parties that want the secession and promise to vote for Constitution reform. The thing is people, even in Catalonia don't want independence. This question is presented over and over again as a Catalonia vs rest of Spain, when it's actually a debate that's not settled inside Catalonia.
Parties that don't propose independence had less votes than the ones that do, the electoral system being the culprit that they have majority in regional parliament.
- smcl 9y ago"The thing is people, even in Catalonia don't want independence" - in your opinion perhaps. Many others have a different opinion. But this is something that could easily be settled by ... a vote on independence.
- narag 9y agoLast election had a majority of votes to parties that didn't proposed independence, that's a hard fact, not an opinion. And as you will soon learn, there is no need to settle that question, it was settled long ago.
- smcl 9y agoCarefully worded answer. To those who might take narag's words at face value, they're probably referring the 2014 referendum where voters were asked "do you want to Catalonia to be a state" and "and if so, do you want it to be independent". The result was 80% of the results were "yes" for both but the turnout was low (40-ish percent). I don't think that is exactly decisive for either side, but to claim it as a win for the "no" camp is a little bit disingenuous.
- _Tev 9y agoIf you want to be independent you go and vote. If you do not care you stay home. Such low turnout seems like a win for "no" camp, because people of Catalonia apparently do not care about independence from Spain.
- smcl 9y agoI’m not convinced, it requires some impressive mental gymnastics to turn a 5% “No” (and 10% Yes/No) into a majority
- _Tev 9y agoAgain - read the GP. 2014: 20% No, 40something turnout. Independence has good support, but it is huge decision. Considering the gravity of the issue that's weak.
- smcl 9y agoYou have magically inflated 10% "yes/no" plus 5% "no" and saying that means 20% "yes" (which is a stretch) ... and then extrapolated that to a majority somehow? Given the turnout then if we were saying "this is a definitive mandate for independence" then yes that would be a ridiculous statement ... but suggesting the opposite is absolutely preposterous.
- maksimum 9y agoExcept in this case it was If you want to be independent you go vote. If you do not care, or are afraid of getting hammered by Spanish police you stay home. In that case 43% turnout is pretty impressive.
- 9y ago
- narag 9y agoNo, I was refering to regular regional ellections that separatists considered "plebiscitary".
- smcl 9y agoAh I thought you were referring to a vote on independence? How about a vote on independence instead?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- mvdwoord 9y agoI have heard this line of reasoning a lot, also in Dutch politics, but I disagree with it. General elections are too broad to pick any issue and simply state that the votes on the parties that hold a certain position on that issue are representative of the voters' position. If you want to know about x, hold a referendum on x, not a general election on the whole alphabet.
- narag 9y agoExcept it was them who stated it would be a referendum by other name.
- gonvaled 9y agoBecause the central government refuses to allow for a real referendum. But tell me, how do I vote for "yes" independence if, say, I only agree with the political program of the socialist party, not part of the "yes" coalition? Parliamentary elections are one thing, referendums another.
- narag 9y agoBecause the central government refuses to allow for a real referendum. This is tiresome. Central government has not the power to refuse or allow a referendum to decide to commit a crime. Exactly the same as police has not the power to declare drugs legal. Please, if you really really want to have a rational conversation, stop parroting politicians' excuses. There are the basics, like "sensible people doesn't riot and attack police for a marginally relevant tax complaint or alledged cultural peculiarity" and if you can understand that this is the foundation, you should consider the possibility that someone is fooling you.
- gonvaled 9y agoPlease stop playing semantics: the central government has the power to trigger a Constitution change to allow for referendums. So far it has refused. It has the power to send police to stop voting in a non-legal referendum, and it has done exactly so.