6 ms·

It's been a bit of bad luck what happened. On the Spanish side, the party at the Government did not have enough votes to freely apply their own policies. By h

It's been a bit of bad luck what happened. On the Spanish side, the party at the Government did not have enough votes to freely apply their own policies. By helping provoke a polarizing crisis, they hugely improve their chances for an absolute majority to improve their power position should there be an election in Spain. Had they negotiated with Catalan Government, their future chances for a huge win would be a lot lower. On the Catalan side, there was not enough votes to morally claim for independence. By provoking a polarizing crisis, they hope to greatly improve their future chances for an absolute majority that helps legitimate their position. In short, both parties ruling on both sides believe that they benefit greatly from confrontation so trying to reach agreements is pretty much out of the question, marketing is all that matters.

lllllll 9y ago
> On the Catalan side, there was not enough votes to morally claim for independence Fair enough. How much % census would you consider enough? Catalan pro-independence had higher % than say for instance Brexit vote. And a good chunk of the % was lost to Spanish Police "raids", quite violently boycotting the peaceful vote.
- michelsonmorley 9y ago
  For instance, the Catalunya Parliament has a requirement of 2/3 of the votes to changes its 'statut' (kind or regional constitution). But they will secede with a simple majority.
- antaviana 9y ago
  In my opinion if the Catalan 2015 election had had more votes pro-independence (in particular for the "Junts pel Sí" party votes, but I can accept CUP votes as well although at the time I was not that sure), it would have been morally claimable. Or, if they had chosen to go for elections next December where votes unequivocally pro-independence parties where higher than votes for the rest of parties, in my opinion it would have been morally claimable. In other words, I'm a lot more comfortable with some clear means to count unequivocal Yes votes against unequivocal No votes. If a party has "Independence" in the election program is an unequivocal Yes. If a party does not have "Independence" in the election program is an unequivocal No. I voted in the referendum but I'm not comfortable with the huge "No show" of No votes on the 1-O referendum. To me, the results of the referendum are not conclusive for such a decision.
narag 9y ago
In short, both parties ruling on both sides believe that they benefit greatly from confrontation No, that's wrong. The reason we have the current clusterf* in place has been the conflict-avoiding actitude of 40 years of spanish governments. We have a proportional voting systems and regional parties have been the "hinge", the small parties that helped ruling parties to reach absolute majority, in national parliament. This allowed them to get away with actually enjoying unfair privileges over the rest of the country and advancing the regionalist agenda. Did you know you can't have your children study in Spanish in Spain? Even with several Supreme Court and "supremer" Tribunal Constitutional rulings backing you. Regional government refused to apply the sentences and national government did nothing to force their hands. Public schools have been instrumental to what we have today in the streets. I'm surprised that half the population has resisted 40 years of brainwash, makes me keep my faith in Humanity. If the article 155 had been applied months, years ago, when the first farce of referendum took place, or even a week before the vote simulation, we had not needed to see the bs that we see in the news everyday.
- RobertoG 9y ago
  Surely, you have your own brand or brainwashing in mind when it's you who want to control the education.
- justin66 9y ago
  > Did you know you can't have your children study in Spanish in Spain? This isn't particularly unusual, it basically works that way in Quebec, unless you use a private school. Unlike Quebec, aren't Catalans almost all bilingual anyhow?
  - narag 9y ago
    They're now.

lllllll 9y ago

> On the Catalan side, there was not enough votes to morally claim for independence Fair enough. How much % census would you consider enough? Catalan pro-independence had higher % than say for instance Brexit vote. And a good chunk of the % was lost to Spanish Police "raids", quite violently boycotting the peaceful vote.

michelsonmorley 9y ago
For instance, the Catalunya Parliament has a requirement of 2/3 of the votes to changes its 'statut' (kind or regional constitution). But they will secede with a simple majority.
antaviana 9y ago
In my opinion if the Catalan 2015 election had had more votes pro-independence (in particular for the "Junts pel Sí" party votes, but I can accept CUP votes as well although at the time I was not that sure), it would have been morally claimable. Or, if they had chosen to go for elections next December where votes unequivocally pro-independence parties where higher than votes for the rest of parties, in my opinion it would have been morally claimable. In other words, I'm a lot more comfortable with some clear means to count unequivocal Yes votes against unequivocal No votes. If a party has "Independence" in the election program is an unequivocal Yes. If a party does not have "Independence" in the election program is an unequivocal No. I voted in the referendum but I'm not comfortable with the huge "No show" of No votes on the 1-O referendum. To me, the results of the referendum are not conclusive for such a decision.

narag 9y ago

In short, both parties ruling on both sides believe that they benefit greatly from confrontation No, that's wrong. The reason we have the current clusterf* in place has been the conflict-avoiding actitude of 40 years of spanish governments. We have a proportional voting systems and regional parties have been the "hinge", the small parties that helped ruling parties to reach absolute majority, in national parliament. This allowed them to get away with actually enjoying unfair privileges over the rest of the country and advancing the regionalist agenda. Did you know you can't have your children study in Spanish in Spain? Even with several Supreme Court and "supremer" Tribunal Constitutional rulings backing you. Regional government refused to apply the sentences and national government did nothing to force their hands. Public schools have been instrumental to what we have today in the streets. I'm surprised that half the population has resisted 40 years of brainwash, makes me keep my faith in Humanity. If the article 155 had been applied months, years ago, when the first farce of referendum took place, or even a week before the vote simulation, we had not needed to see the bs that we see in the news everyday.

RobertoG 9y ago
Surely, you have your own brand or brainwashing in mind when it's you who want to control the education.
justin66 9y ago
> Did you know you can't have your children study in Spanish in Spain? This isn't particularly unusual, it basically works that way in Quebec, unless you use a private school. Unlike Quebec, aren't Catalans almost all bilingual anyhow?
- narag 9y ago
  They're now.