8 ms·
Your opinion on what Catalonia will actually need to do to gain independence. Is civil war (however unlikely) the only way?
by tertius 9y ago
Your opinion on what Catalonia will actually need to do to gain independence.
Is civil war (however unlikely) the only way?
- narag 9y agoStop talking of Catalonia as if there were only one opinion. At least half of catalans don't want independence.
- lllllll 9y ago> Stop talking of Catalonia as if there were only one opinion. At least half of catalans don't want independence. Citation needed.
- harperlee 9y agoSee the distribution of votes for the regional Parlament.
- simlevesque 9y agoThey should have voted then.
- sangnoir 9y agoWhy legitimize a non-constitutional process you disagree with? I would stay home too.
- kgwgk 9y agoThe catalan parliament has approved the "independence" resolution (despite the parliament lawyers warning about the illegality of the voting) with 70 "yes" (out of 135 seats).
- AnimalMuppet 9y agoWhich is, essentially, a repeat of the same pattern as the election. To me, it's starting to smell like trying to manufacture a "mandate" when you really don't have one.
- narag 9y agoNo, they shouldn't and they didn't. The referendum was a farce and clearly rigged.
- adrinavarro 9y agoWhy "half" is often said: - 2015 elections were considered "plebiscitary", i.e. in absence of a referendum, pro-independence parties ran together as one "yes to independence" vote. They obtained 39.6% of the vote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_regional_election,_2015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_regional_election,_201... - Added together to radical left (anti-capitalist, pro-independence) parties, it adds up to 47.8% of the vote. With ~75% turnout. ~35% of census - The "illegal referendum" this month resulted in 90.18% pro-yes with 43.03% turnout. ~38% of census. However, because of how it took place (not your normal election), the correctness of these results is often questioned, in one way or the other. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refer%C3%A9ndum_de_independencia_de_Catalu%C3%B1a_de_2017 https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refer%C3%A9ndum_de_independenc...
- narag 9y agoWell, the "half" is a way of simplifying. Next elections will show an updated numbers. The reason I say half is that it's nonsense to pretend that approximately half of a population should be enough to bully the other half into a revolution that could cause a blood bath and creating millions of extrangers in their own country.
- tertius 9y ago> it's nonsense to pretend that approximately half of a population should be enough I think that's why rhetoric isn't enough to actually stop the half that want a revolution. What number is high enough in your estimation then?
- vanattab 9y agoI don't understand how people can keep repeating this? With out citing specific data? Based on wikipeida's article on election data in the 2008 the average voter turnout was 73.9% of the population. During the Catalan referendum some were between 38.5% and 42.5% percent turnout. For simplicity lets say 100 people voted in the referendum which resulted in a 90/10 split in favor of independence. The turnout numbers suggest that in an a normal election maybe as much as 192 people might have voted or 92 more then did. Even if you assume %90 of the "likely" voters that did not vote would have voted against independence it seems to me that the independence side would have still won.
- harperlee 9y ago1. One would think there is a big correlation between people that think that the referendum was not valid, and people who did not vote. 2. Ballots were only overseen by proindependence people, and questions regarding tampering have been raised. A small number of radicals* should suffice to widen the gap with a normal voting process. * I define "radical" here as someone that seems justifiable to create fake vote or vote multiple times, gaming the election process, for the "greater good"
- tertius 9y agoI'm asking a question, not making a statement or "talking of" as you say. Stop telling people what to do.