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What does the 1000 year history have to do with anything? If the people want independence now, that's all that matters.
by spankalee 9y ago
What does the 1000 year history have to do with anything? If the people want independence now, that's all that matters.
- cbraz 9y agoThe usual claim for independence has historical roots.
- spankalee 9y agoThe claim that matters is that people want independence at all. Why isn't important, self-determination is.
- harperlee 9y agoThe context in which things have been happening matters. Catalonia asked for fiscal special treatment like the one that other regions have for historical reasons (whereas they don't have such history). So the context is important.
- kgwgk 9y agoCatalonia could have obtained a similar system when the constitution was written, but declined to do so.
- dragonwriter 9y agoPlenty of counterexamples, including the joint independence movement among 13 English colonies in North America (which, unlike decolonialization in, say, India, wasn't the historically independent subjugated locals revolting against the foreign colonizers, but largely the imported ruling class revolting against the homeland that set them up and displaced the locals.)
- StreamBright 9y ago"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
- MLR 9y agoI don't think this is a particularly valid viewpoint. For one thing it would destroy half the countries in the world, and most of them aren't highly developed nations that can vaguely cope with it. For another, how do you set limits, why is Catalonia special but any random town or city isn't? There's also the point that (probably) irreparably destroying countries based on slim margins and changing whims probably isn't smart. Now that's not to say I wouldn't support a (legal) referendum in Catalonia, but you do need to treat it with some nuance.
- d0lph 9y agoI think that begs the question though, how would you set limits? Was the colonies forming America wrong, it certainly wasn't a peaceful/legal revolution.
- heavenlyblue 9y agoWhat about the whole of the country subsidising the more wealthy region by things like brain-drain and leanier taxation? What would happen if California were to separate from the US? Who would afford their army? What about billions invested by the whole of US in the industries there? By your logic I may just reply that "if the people want independence now - then all that matters if I have enough military power to keep them in the saddle". Because the laws are changeable.
- xtreme 9y ago> all that matters if I have enough military power to keep them in the saddle That's pretty much how most declarations of independence have worked historically. But even if you have enough military power, how much blood are you willing to shed if a full blown civil war breaks out? If there are civilian deaths, it's likely that there would be condemnation and support for the separatists from the international community. What matters is how badly people want their independence and how far they are willing to go for it.
- heavenlyblue 9y agoPlease see the parent comment. My opinion here is in regards to "what matters to what happened 1000 years ago? what matters is what they want now!" - by making a point that what happened years ago does indeed have some value.
- mixmastamyk 9y agoRich regions typically subsidize poor areas, not the other way around. Also, industry in Spain is largely private.
- heavenlyblue 9y agoPoor areas are subsidized for a number of reasons, one is to be in control of the area. Give it up and someone else will happily take it: what about deregulated toxic disposal at the state level? what about coca leaf production in deserted areas? arms production with no oversight? Well, here we are.
- david927 9y agoCatalan has always been its own country -- it just hasn't had the chance to have autonomy until now.
- iagovar 9y agoThey already have autonomy. That's what an "autonomous community is". They practically have the same autonomy as an US state.