5 ms·

Why would the Spanish government let the Catalans declare independence regardless of the outcome of the illegal referendum?

barrkel 9y ago
Because the alternative is forcible oppression and denial of the right of self-determination. Read more about the right of self-determination here: http://www.unpo.org/article/4957 http://www.unpo.org/article/4957
- narag 9y ago
  That right is only for colonies or genocide, not the case of Catalonia at all. They're one of the richest spanish regions. Edit: they've neve been independent, that's more of the bs that we're hearing these days.
  - ben_w 9y ago
    What is the fundamental difference between a colony and any other patch of territory?
    - narag 9y ago
      Are you serious?
      - ben_w 9y ago
        Yes, I am. While people displaced by a colony are obviously disadvantaged, the colony itself and its residents are not.
        dragonwriter 9y ago
        > While people displaced by a colony are obviously disadvantaged, the colony itself and its residents are not. I think you may be confusing the pattern of colonization in British North America with colonization more generally; the pattern elsewhere was more often of subordination to an imported elite rather than displacement.
        ben_w 9y ago
        Good answer, but you’ve made me realise I made an even deeper error — I was thinking like Civilization: cities as the fundamental unit, not the productive capacity of the nearby land they control.
  - lllllll 9y ago
    I believe that's a common misconception. UN charter makes no mention of colonies Art 1.2(http://www.un.org/en/sections/un-charter/chapter-i/index.html http://www.un.org/en/sections/un-charter/chapter-i/index.htm...). Although a UN-charter-based document is applied to colonies, which is what you might be referring to.
    - narag 9y ago
      There's no definition there, it's just mentioned and of course there's a complete definition elsewhere.
- coryfklein 9y ago
  Would self-determination have argued in favor of the secession of the south?
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Would self-determination have argued in favor of the secession of the south? Perhaps, if that is what the people in the South (and not just those in positions of relative legal privilege) wanted. But I doubt that, for example, the 55% of Mississippi's population that was in slavery was particularly energized about secession to preserve the right of their masters to keep them in slavery, though.

barrkel 9y ago

Because the alternative is forcible oppression and denial of the right of self-determination. Read more about the right of self-determination here: http://www.unpo.org/article/4957 http://www.unpo.org/article/4957

narag 9y ago
That right is only for colonies or genocide, not the case of Catalonia at all. They're one of the richest spanish regions. Edit: they've neve been independent, that's more of the bs that we're hearing these days.
- ben_w 9y ago
  What is the fundamental difference between a colony and any other patch of territory?
  - narag 9y ago
    Are you serious?
    - ben_w 9y ago
      Yes, I am. While people displaced by a colony are obviously disadvantaged, the colony itself and its residents are not.
      - dragonwriter 9y ago
        > While people displaced by a colony are obviously disadvantaged, the colony itself and its residents are not. I think you may be confusing the pattern of colonization in British North America with colonization more generally; the pattern elsewhere was more often of subordination to an imported elite rather than displacement.
        ben_w 9y ago
        Good answer, but you’ve made me realise I made an even deeper error — I was thinking like Civilization: cities as the fundamental unit, not the productive capacity of the nearby land they control.
- lllllll 9y ago
  I believe that's a common misconception. UN charter makes no mention of colonies Art 1.2(http://www.un.org/en/sections/un-charter/chapter-i/index.html http://www.un.org/en/sections/un-charter/chapter-i/index.htm...). Although a UN-charter-based document is applied to colonies, which is what you might be referring to.
  - narag 9y ago
    There's no definition there, it's just mentioned and of course there's a complete definition elsewhere.
coryfklein 9y ago
Would self-determination have argued in favor of the secession of the south?
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Would self-determination have argued in favor of the secession of the south? Perhaps, if that is what the people in the South (and not just those in positions of relative legal privilege) wanted. But I doubt that, for example, the 55% of Mississippi's population that was in slavery was particularly energized about secession to preserve the right of their masters to keep them in slavery, though.