6 ms·

Don't waste that anger. Vote left (Or at least be very careful with your preference flows) at the next election. And get everyone you can to start talking/pushi

Don't waste that anger. Vote left (Or at least be very careful with your preference flows) at the next election. And get everyone you can to start talking/pushing for a Royal Commission into this.

andrewstuart 9y ago
I loathe all politicians including the left wing. I just loathe the right wing more. None of them represent the citizens. They represent their own grasping self interest. And I certainly don't agree with the far left who seem to have an anti corporate/anti capitalist whiff to them ... I'm a committed capitalist AND green and they is no political party aligned to that.
- gonzo41 9y ago
  I'm not discounting that, but use what you've got. Your vote.
- perilunar 9y ago
  What about the Reason Party (ex. Sex Party)? They are broadly Libertarian but more pro-environment than the Lib-Dems.
- shabbyrobe 9y ago
  So when your choice is for the worst or the less worse, vote less worse! We don't have to like it (though that'd be nice), just prefer it. Case in point: the original plan for the NBN was vastly preferable to this scandal ;)
  - aplummer 9y ago
    I disagree about the original plan being preferable. The original NBN plan was a pipe dream in terms of cost feasibility, the rollout was aligned electoral boundaries, and the country first mentality means you get 12 megabit per second ADSL2 across from the Telstra building in the Melbourne CBD, and 100mbit in a large number of country towns.
    - andrewstuart 9y ago
      I live in the city but "country first" is exactly the right way to go. Internet service in Australia outside the cities is absolutely terrible. It would be a game changer for the whole of Australia if Internet was first class everywhere. Then it truly wouldn't matter where you lived for certain classes of work. And regarding cost, well I think this is precisely what the government should be spending OUR money on. They make such a huge song and dance about $49Biliion for the NBN, but the government is desperate to throw our money at companies. Have you heard ANYTHING about the $50Bn tax cut the government has given to companies? http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/malcolm-turnbulls-company-tax-cut-rises-from-50-billion-to-654-billion-20170511-gw2ksm.html http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/mal...
      - aplummer 9y ago
        We'll just have to disagree. Last weekend I was at a farm in Glenburn with NBN, but since on the farm they get 4g which is easier they just use that instead, especially just for email and occasional agri-mapping software. Meanwhile software developers in Fitzroy working from home get ~5mbit - ~10mbit and actually need the data.
- aplummer 9y ago
  We all thought Malcolm Turnbull was supposed to be exactly what you are describing.
  - FuckOffNeemo 9y ago
    He was before he lost to Tony Abbot for running the LNP. As it stands he's a far cry from what his ideals once where. I'm not informed enough to see how this came about but if I had to take a guess I'd suggest the influence of the Nationals on the LNP has taken it's toll.
- girvo 9y ago
  There was the Australian Democrats. I’m still tempted to see if I can resurrect them.
  - thomasfoster96 9y ago
    They still run Senate candidates (in Victoria at least) but as independents because they lost party status. Not sure if they can be resurrected though - I think their good people all went to Labor and the Greens.
    - flukus 9y ago
      Due to todays events the former Democrats leader (Andrew Bartlet) will probably be replacing Waters.
      - thomasfoster96 9y ago
        That’s true.
- mmerlin 9y ago
  Sick of politicians? Sustainable Australia party is who you're looking for. William Bourke is eminently sensible. Dick Smith joined. The anti-corruption fighter who wrote "Game of Mates" Dr Cameron Murray is running for them too. http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/qld http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/qld
  - Benjamin_Dobell 9y ago
    Unfortunately, Dick Smith's reputation has been somewhat tainted by getting involved with a racist national disgrace: http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/08/17/hanson-dick-smith-meet-over-capping-immigration http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/08/17/hanson-dick-sm...
    - mmerlin 9y ago
      Somewhat, although he backed away from One Nation after Pauline wore a Burka in parliament. It's a shame the media has conflated any discussion of an immigration policy with racism (ie because of One Nation) Dick's not running though, so checkout the candidates and party, they are academics and scientists for the common good.
  - thomasfoster96 9y ago
    Do you have any links to the party? I’ve never really got the impression that Sustainable Australia (or any of its previous incarnations) was really anything more than an anti-population growth single issue party.
    - mmerlin 9y ago
      They're much more than a single issue party :) - Stop undemocratic privatisation - Establish an independent Federal commission against corruption - Require more timely disclosure of political donations - Invest more in renewable energy - Moratorium on all fracking - No new casinos - Prioritise public transport funding over new tollways - Lower immigration from its record level (over 200,000 p.a.) back to the long term average of 70,000 p.a. - Tackle global population growth through increased foreign aid for female education and universal access to contraception - Establish major community product repair and recycle centres Public Assets http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/public_assets_utilities/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/public_assets_utiliti... Foreign Investment http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/foreign_investment/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/foreign_investment/ Education http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/education/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/education/ Housing Affordability http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/housing_affordability/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/housing_affordability... Health http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/health/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/health/ Gambling http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/gambling/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/gambling/ Energy http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/energy/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/energy/ Finite Resources http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/finite_non_renewable_resource_use/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/finite_non_renewable_... Jobs http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/economy_jobs/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/economy_jobs/
- predakanga 9y ago
  There's always the Flux party[0] - as I understand it, they're basically committing themselves to direct democracy within their own party. [0]: https://voteflux.org/ https://voteflux.org/
- crispinb 9y ago
  > None of them represent the citizens. They represent their own grasping self interest That is a false and dangerous overstatement. I have met many parliamentarians in 3 nations. They have pretty much the same mix of ethical tendencies as in the general population. They higher they rise, the more compromises are forced on them, but they're no worse in general than their electors (many of whom are also entirely self-interested and grasping). > I'm a committed capitalist AND green and they is no political party aligned to that Most Green parties have been suckered by the long-discredited 'natural capital' story, so are unfortunately heavily committed to capitalism. Ipso facto, there are few genuinely Green parties, as capitalism is clearly incompatible with the continued healthy existence of a living planet.
- thomasfoster96 9y ago
  > I'm a committed capitalist AND green and they is no political party aligned to that. The Greens have an unofficial right faction (pro-capitalism, pro-green). Most of the recent Greens internal tension has been between this faction (which has a lot of ex-Liberal environmentalists and ex-Democrats) and the Left Renewal faction (many of whom are openly anti-capitalist). The pro-capitalism faction is certainly very strong and seems to control the party leadership at the moment.

Don't waste that anger. Vote left (Or at least be very careful with your preference flows) at the next election. And get everyone you can to start talking/pushing for a Royal Commission into this.

andrewstuart 9y ago

I loathe all politicians including the left wing. I just loathe the right wing more. None of them represent the citizens. They represent their own grasping self interest. And I certainly don't agree with the far left who seem to have an anti corporate/anti capitalist whiff to them ... I'm a committed capitalist AND green and they is no political party aligned to that.

gonzo41 9y ago
I'm not discounting that, but use what you've got. Your vote.
perilunar 9y ago
What about the Reason Party (ex. Sex Party)? They are broadly Libertarian but more pro-environment than the Lib-Dems.
shabbyrobe 9y ago
So when your choice is for the worst or the less worse, vote less worse! We don't have to like it (though that'd be nice), just prefer it. Case in point: the original plan for the NBN was vastly preferable to this scandal ;)
- aplummer 9y ago
  I disagree about the original plan being preferable. The original NBN plan was a pipe dream in terms of cost feasibility, the rollout was aligned electoral boundaries, and the country first mentality means you get 12 megabit per second ADSL2 across from the Telstra building in the Melbourne CBD, and 100mbit in a large number of country towns.
  - andrewstuart 9y ago
    I live in the city but "country first" is exactly the right way to go. Internet service in Australia outside the cities is absolutely terrible. It would be a game changer for the whole of Australia if Internet was first class everywhere. Then it truly wouldn't matter where you lived for certain classes of work. And regarding cost, well I think this is precisely what the government should be spending OUR money on. They make such a huge song and dance about $49Biliion for the NBN, but the government is desperate to throw our money at companies. Have you heard ANYTHING about the $50Bn tax cut the government has given to companies? http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/malcolm-turnbulls-company-tax-cut-rises-from-50-billion-to-654-billion-20170511-gw2ksm.html http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/mal...
    - aplummer 9y ago
      We'll just have to disagree. Last weekend I was at a farm in Glenburn with NBN, but since on the farm they get 4g which is easier they just use that instead, especially just for email and occasional agri-mapping software. Meanwhile software developers in Fitzroy working from home get ~5mbit - ~10mbit and actually need the data.
aplummer 9y ago
We all thought Malcolm Turnbull was supposed to be exactly what you are describing.
- FuckOffNeemo 9y ago
  He was before he lost to Tony Abbot for running the LNP. As it stands he's a far cry from what his ideals once where. I'm not informed enough to see how this came about but if I had to take a guess I'd suggest the influence of the Nationals on the LNP has taken it's toll.
girvo 9y ago
There was the Australian Democrats. I’m still tempted to see if I can resurrect them.
- thomasfoster96 9y ago
  They still run Senate candidates (in Victoria at least) but as independents because they lost party status. Not sure if they can be resurrected though - I think their good people all went to Labor and the Greens.
  - flukus 9y ago
    Due to todays events the former Democrats leader (Andrew Bartlet) will probably be replacing Waters.
    - thomasfoster96 9y ago
      That’s true.
mmerlin 9y ago
Sick of politicians? Sustainable Australia party is who you're looking for. William Bourke is eminently sensible. Dick Smith joined. The anti-corruption fighter who wrote "Game of Mates" Dr Cameron Murray is running for them too. http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/qld http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/qld
- Benjamin_Dobell 9y ago
  Unfortunately, Dick Smith's reputation has been somewhat tainted by getting involved with a racist national disgrace: http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/08/17/hanson-dick-smith-meet-over-capping-immigration http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/08/17/hanson-dick-sm...
  - mmerlin 9y ago
    Somewhat, although he backed away from One Nation after Pauline wore a Burka in parliament. It's a shame the media has conflated any discussion of an immigration policy with racism (ie because of One Nation) Dick's not running though, so checkout the candidates and party, they are academics and scientists for the common good.
- thomasfoster96 9y ago
  Do you have any links to the party? I’ve never really got the impression that Sustainable Australia (or any of its previous incarnations) was really anything more than an anti-population growth single issue party.
  - mmerlin 9y ago
    They're much more than a single issue party :) - Stop undemocratic privatisation - Establish an independent Federal commission against corruption - Require more timely disclosure of political donations - Invest more in renewable energy - Moratorium on all fracking - No new casinos - Prioritise public transport funding over new tollways - Lower immigration from its record level (over 200,000 p.a.) back to the long term average of 70,000 p.a. - Tackle global population growth through increased foreign aid for female education and universal access to contraception - Establish major community product repair and recycle centres Public Assets http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/public_assets_utilities/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/public_assets_utiliti... Foreign Investment http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/foreign_investment/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/foreign_investment/ Education http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/education/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/education/ Housing Affordability http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/housing_affordability/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/housing_affordability... Health http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/health/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/health/ Gambling http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/gambling/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/gambling/ Energy http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/energy/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/energy/ Finite Resources http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/finite_non_renewable_resource_use/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/finite_non_renewable_... Jobs http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/economy_jobs/ http://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/economy_jobs/
predakanga 9y ago
There's always the Flux party[0] - as I understand it, they're basically committing themselves to direct democracy within their own party. [0]: https://voteflux.org/ https://voteflux.org/
crispinb 9y ago
> None of them represent the citizens. They represent their own grasping self interest That is a false and dangerous overstatement. I have met many parliamentarians in 3 nations. They have pretty much the same mix of ethical tendencies as in the general population. They higher they rise, the more compromises are forced on them, but they're no worse in general than their electors (many of whom are also entirely self-interested and grasping). > I'm a committed capitalist AND green and they is no political party aligned to that Most Green parties have been suckered by the long-discredited 'natural capital' story, so are unfortunately heavily committed to capitalism. Ipso facto, there are few genuinely Green parties, as capitalism is clearly incompatible with the continued healthy existence of a living planet.
thomasfoster96 9y ago
> I'm a committed capitalist AND green and they is no political party aligned to that. The Greens have an unofficial right faction (pro-capitalism, pro-green). Most of the recent Greens internal tension has been between this faction (which has a lot of ex-Liberal environmentalists and ex-Democrats) and the Left Renewal faction (many of whom are openly anti-capitalist). The pro-capitalism faction is certainly very strong and seems to control the party leadership at the moment.