7 ms·

I dont disagree with this article, however its articles with this strong language and "better than you" attitude that gives linux a bad name.

Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
I'm angrier about this than I would normally be because I have to deal with entitled Nvidia users all the time. If Nvidia was a crappy player and I never heard about it, I wouldn't care, but Nvidia is a crappy player and many of their users act like entitled brats who fill my inbox and IRC channel. This article is as much addressed to them as it is to Nvidia.
- awakeasleep 9y ago
  Speaking as someone who is recovering from his own fuckups in this realm, I'm reminded of the buddha quote about how anger hurts the person who is angry rather than what you're angry at. Please don't take this as a criticism of you personally though, I'm just venting and worried about how I'm gonna fix a work relationship that I care about that I damaged because I was angry
  - Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
    Wise words. This is actually rather tempered from my first draft. It may have made sense to temper it more, but I stand by every point I said.
    - ktta 9y ago
      Just a tip. It is best to write something out, sleep on it and then revisit what you wrote the next day with a fresh mind. Hope it helps.
    - doesnt_know 9y ago
      It's seriously amazing how much you (and many others) give to the floss community. I do the 9-5 developer thing and enjoy it very much, but I would probably lose my shit if I constantly had random strangers emailing me on my personal accounts demanding help. I joke to myself that I would be the worst floss maintainer in the world and immediately reply to every feature request with an hourly charge out rate.
- 0xcde4c3db 9y ago
  A surprising number of Nvidia users seem to live in an alternate universe where Nvidia GPUs are self-evidently the only "serious" option and only an idiot would bother with anything else. In their case I think they might honestly believe that Nvidia is the 800-pound gorilla in the GPU market, to the point of everything else being on the margins. Perhaps it simply doesn't even occur to them that Nvidia could ever resemble an annoying rump faction more than a glorious leader.
  - jannes 9y ago
    Unfortunately AMD gpus are not supported on OSX, so if you want to dual boot OSX/linux you are forced to chose nvidia because of Apple.
    - bobthedino 9y ago
      Wondering if you could clarify what you mean here? All current Macs that have discrete graphics use AMD GPUs, so they are definitely supported by macOS - or are you talking about Hackintoshes?
      - jannes 9y ago
        Oh, sorry. I wasn't aware of that. Yes, I was talking about hackintoshes that don't have AMD support for some reason. Specifically I was talking about this hardware guide: https://www.tonymacx86.com/buyersguide/october/2017/#Graphics_Cards https://www.tonymacx86.com/buyersguide/october/2017/#Graphic...
    - jsjohnst 9y ago
      I’ve got six Macs sitting within arm reach that disagree with you. Heck, my desktop Mac Pro has both Nvidia and AMD GPUs and both run without issue.
    - jhasse 9y ago
      You mean Hackintosh?
- monster2control 9y ago
  You're pretty much angry in every one of your post. It's kind of ironic that you state Nvidia users act entitled, your post come off as though you are better than every one else and that the rest of the world is wrong if they don't agree with you. While it sucks that Nvidia is not fully supportive of Linux or Wayland, this seems like the least productive way of getting them to do the right thing. Telling people they are wrong, or idiots, or entitled, is probably the quickest way to alienate them and lose all support instead of gaining it. Bottom line, just admit it, you hate anything that is not 100% open source, which is your opinion and right to do, but that doesn't make it the only option and if Nvidia provided a solution that allows you to work with their GPUs, it is you that is wrong here. They are the bigger fish, thus they get to eat you or at least push you around. Basic life lesson. You would have been much better off writing an article simply asking for a few passionate Nvidia user that wish to take over Nvidia support if they would like to see it continue to work in Sway. Instead, you write an article that alienates the entire user base. That's a pretty shitty thing to do and a reason people seem so unwilling to work with a lot of FOSS maintainers, because the truth is, they act like the entitled ones, as your article clearly does about you.
  - jackary_the_cat 9y ago
    The guy is super angry, it doesn't matter what you say. Even if he had used different tone, I doubt he would ever accept the Nvidia support into sway.
opencl 9y ago
NVIDIA repeats the exact same terrible behavior with Linux stuff over and over again (as the article put it, "throwing code/blobs over the wall and expecting everyone to change for them") and IMO they deserve large amounts of angry public criticism over it until they stop.
- shmerl 9y ago
  Because of the rapid Mesa progress, Nvidia will suffer gradual decline of the Linux user base as time will go on. I'm not sure if they care enough to do anything about it though. Potential setbacks in CUDA usage can bite them more, but for that Khronos need to ramp up their effort of Vulkan based CL-next[1] or whatever it will be called. 1. http://hexus.net/tech/news/software/105895-vulkan-opencl-will-merge-single-api/ http://hexus.net/tech/news/software/105895-vulkan-opencl-wil...
- synicalx 9y ago
  I kind of sympathise with NVIDIA in all this; they've got a very tiny and very vocal market share that behaves very very differently from their main customer base. With Windows users NVIDIA know that they want pretty games and they want them prettier very year, and they also know that Microsoft is probably going to work with them to make that happen. They've also got game developers and hardware vendors lining up to get NVIDIA logos on their products. Whereas in Linuxland, they've got a kernel, a billion side-projects that may or may not be widely used and they all want NVIDIA to conform the THEIR way of doing things, an angry Finnish gentleman who just shouts and swears at things he doesn't like, and a largely non-gaming and very fragmented user base that could be using any number of desktop environments/kernel versions/drivers etc. On top of all that, this menagerie only accounts for about 3.8% of the desktop market. And they're also kicking and screaming that NVIDIA isn't doing enough to support the things that they want to do. Sure NVIDIA could be working faster to better support Linux by throwing more people and money at it, but they don't have to and until more people use Linux they don't really have much of an incentive to do so. They'll probably have better Linux support, eventually, and if that fits in with their business plan then that's fine. If you're a Linux user and NVIDIA doesn't do what you want it to do, then that's fine as well - vote with your wallet and buy from someone else.
__s 9y ago
It comes from the top: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYWzMvlj2RQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYWzMvlj2RQ
shock 9y ago
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence." - Mahatma Gandhi I think it's extremely important to express our dissatisfaction with nVidia, and strong language makes the point across. Sometimes people don't take your complaints seriously if you're too polite; (maybe because politeness signals impotence?)

Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago

I'm angrier about this than I would normally be because I have to deal with entitled Nvidia users all the time. If Nvidia was a crappy player and I never heard about it, I wouldn't care, but Nvidia is a crappy player and many of their users act like entitled brats who fill my inbox and IRC channel. This article is as much addressed to them as it is to Nvidia.

awakeasleep 9y ago
Speaking as someone who is recovering from his own fuckups in this realm, I'm reminded of the buddha quote about how anger hurts the person who is angry rather than what you're angry at. Please don't take this as a criticism of you personally though, I'm just venting and worried about how I'm gonna fix a work relationship that I care about that I damaged because I was angry
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
  Wise words. This is actually rather tempered from my first draft. It may have made sense to temper it more, but I stand by every point I said.
  - ktta 9y ago
    Just a tip. It is best to write something out, sleep on it and then revisit what you wrote the next day with a fresh mind. Hope it helps.
  - doesnt_know 9y ago
    It's seriously amazing how much you (and many others) give to the floss community. I do the 9-5 developer thing and enjoy it very much, but I would probably lose my shit if I constantly had random strangers emailing me on my personal accounts demanding help. I joke to myself that I would be the worst floss maintainer in the world and immediately reply to every feature request with an hourly charge out rate.
0xcde4c3db 9y ago
A surprising number of Nvidia users seem to live in an alternate universe where Nvidia GPUs are self-evidently the only "serious" option and only an idiot would bother with anything else. In their case I think they might honestly believe that Nvidia is the 800-pound gorilla in the GPU market, to the point of everything else being on the margins. Perhaps it simply doesn't even occur to them that Nvidia could ever resemble an annoying rump faction more than a glorious leader.
- jannes 9y ago
  Unfortunately AMD gpus are not supported on OSX, so if you want to dual boot OSX/linux you are forced to chose nvidia because of Apple.
  - bobthedino 9y ago
    Wondering if you could clarify what you mean here? All current Macs that have discrete graphics use AMD GPUs, so they are definitely supported by macOS - or are you talking about Hackintoshes?
    - jannes 9y ago
      Oh, sorry. I wasn't aware of that. Yes, I was talking about hackintoshes that don't have AMD support for some reason. Specifically I was talking about this hardware guide: https://www.tonymacx86.com/buyersguide/october/2017/#Graphics_Cards https://www.tonymacx86.com/buyersguide/october/2017/#Graphic...
  - jsjohnst 9y ago
    I’ve got six Macs sitting within arm reach that disagree with you. Heck, my desktop Mac Pro has both Nvidia and AMD GPUs and both run without issue.
  - jhasse 9y ago
    You mean Hackintosh?
monster2control 9y ago
You're pretty much angry in every one of your post. It's kind of ironic that you state Nvidia users act entitled, your post come off as though you are better than every one else and that the rest of the world is wrong if they don't agree with you. While it sucks that Nvidia is not fully supportive of Linux or Wayland, this seems like the least productive way of getting them to do the right thing. Telling people they are wrong, or idiots, or entitled, is probably the quickest way to alienate them and lose all support instead of gaining it. Bottom line, just admit it, you hate anything that is not 100% open source, which is your opinion and right to do, but that doesn't make it the only option and if Nvidia provided a solution that allows you to work with their GPUs, it is you that is wrong here. They are the bigger fish, thus they get to eat you or at least push you around. Basic life lesson. You would have been much better off writing an article simply asking for a few passionate Nvidia user that wish to take over Nvidia support if they would like to see it continue to work in Sway. Instead, you write an article that alienates the entire user base. That's a pretty shitty thing to do and a reason people seem so unwilling to work with a lot of FOSS maintainers, because the truth is, they act like the entitled ones, as your article clearly does about you.
- jackary_the_cat 9y ago
  The guy is super angry, it doesn't matter what you say. Even if he had used different tone, I doubt he would ever accept the Nvidia support into sway.

opencl 9y ago

NVIDIA repeats the exact same terrible behavior with Linux stuff over and over again (as the article put it, "throwing code/blobs over the wall and expecting everyone to change for them") and IMO they deserve large amounts of angry public criticism over it until they stop.

shmerl 9y ago
Because of the rapid Mesa progress, Nvidia will suffer gradual decline of the Linux user base as time will go on. I'm not sure if they care enough to do anything about it though. Potential setbacks in CUDA usage can bite them more, but for that Khronos need to ramp up their effort of Vulkan based CL-next[1] or whatever it will be called. 1. http://hexus.net/tech/news/software/105895-vulkan-opencl-will-merge-single-api/ http://hexus.net/tech/news/software/105895-vulkan-opencl-wil...
synicalx 9y ago
I kind of sympathise with NVIDIA in all this; they've got a very tiny and very vocal market share that behaves very very differently from their main customer base. With Windows users NVIDIA know that they want pretty games and they want them prettier very year, and they also know that Microsoft is probably going to work with them to make that happen. They've also got game developers and hardware vendors lining up to get NVIDIA logos on their products. Whereas in Linuxland, they've got a kernel, a billion side-projects that may or may not be widely used and they all want NVIDIA to conform the THEIR way of doing things, an angry Finnish gentleman who just shouts and swears at things he doesn't like, and a largely non-gaming and very fragmented user base that could be using any number of desktop environments/kernel versions/drivers etc. On top of all that, this menagerie only accounts for about 3.8% of the desktop market. And they're also kicking and screaming that NVIDIA isn't doing enough to support the things that they want to do. Sure NVIDIA could be working faster to better support Linux by throwing more people and money at it, but they don't have to and until more people use Linux they don't really have much of an incentive to do so. They'll probably have better Linux support, eventually, and if that fits in with their business plan then that's fine. If you're a Linux user and NVIDIA doesn't do what you want it to do, then that's fine as well - vote with your wallet and buy from someone else.

__s 9y ago

It comes from the top: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYWzMvlj2RQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYWzMvlj2RQ

shock 9y ago

"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence." - Mahatma Gandhi I think it's extremely important to express our dissatisfaction with nVidia, and strong language makes the point across. Sometimes people don't take your complaints seriously if you're too polite; (maybe because politeness signals impotence?)