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Judging from the pictures they'll still use paper price labels. Why? It seems extremely arcane to still use paper price labels in 2017, especially for stores a

Judging from the pictures they'll still use paper price labels. Why? It seems extremely arcane to still use paper price labels in 2017, especially for stores as big and centrally run as Walmart. With digital price labels you can update prices centrally across the whole country within seconds, and it costs basically nothing to implement too, when the labor cost of manually updating paper price labels are factored in.

duderific 9y ago
> and it costs basically nothing to implement too. I find that hard to believe, given the scale of Walmart's operations - they have close to 5000 stores, and who knows how much technical debt they have in their stocking/inventory systems.
- kristofferR 9y ago
  I clarified that I meant with labor taken into account. I don't understand the technical debt argument though - if a robot can scan prices to check that they are correct, a display should be able to display the price without any issue. The prices are obviously accedible in a database.
- tradersam 9y ago
  Considering the fact that Walmart's last FY earnings were something to the tune of $124.62B,[1] regardless of technical debt or other factors I don't think spending less than 1% of that to do a (probably) much needed upgrade is a hard sell to anyone rational. [1]: https://amigobulls.com/stocks/WMT/income-statement/annual https://amigobulls.com/stocks/WMT/income-statement/annual
  - kondro 9y ago
    Gross profit is not net profit.
    - tradersam 9y ago
      You're right, my bad-I updated the comment. Still, even with their net income being $13.64B for the year, it doesn't seem like much of an issue, especially if rolled out over a multi-year period.
foobarrio 9y ago
At the very least you will need another little robot or human that goes by and verifies that the prices have actually been updated. I can't imagine the LCD price displayers will be super high reliable and built to last decades.
- kristofferR 9y ago
  You seem to think that electronic price labels is a new unproven technology, while it is actually extremely common and well tested. After the initial introduction period, where errors can occur, it's pretty much guaranteed to work as flawless as it does everywhere else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_shelf_label https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_shelf_label
bbarn 9y ago
Probably because it's the lowest common denominator across all states to follow codes. https://www.nist.gov/pml/weights-and-measures/us-retail-pricing-laws-and-regulations-state https://www.nist.gov/pml/weights-and-measures/us-retail-pric... A company the size of Walmart would need to employ many lawyers just to deal with state to state pricing laws.
jdietrich 9y ago
Shelves need to be checked, faced and re-stocked on a daily basis. Someone is already checking every shelf in the store every day, so the actual labour cost of changing paper price labels is remarkably small. Electronic shelf labels could facilitate dynamic price changes, but this is likely to be highly unpopular with customers. The mere presence of ESLs could imply volatile or manipulative pricing and undermine customer trust.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  > The mere presence of ESLs could imply volatile or manipulative pricing and undermine customer trust. It definitely does that for me. The heuristic I use in life is very simple - if it can be done and makes economic sense, it will be done. Volatile pricing can be done with electronic signs, and it definitely could seem to make economic sense to some companies.
  - kristofferR 9y ago
    I'm actually extremely surprised that volatile prices aren't already common in the US. The grocery chains here in Norway update prices across the country as soon as they notice that competitors sell the same products cheaper (provided they want to be the cheapest for that product), often several times a day. ESLs have been very common in big stores since perhaps 2013. Our BestBuy alternative Power actually had a big ad campaign last year about how their digital signs and their price robot allows them to offer lower prices than what their competitors offer.
BjoernKW 9y ago
I suppose because modernising existing systems is tedious, error-prone and expensive. The latter two in principle apply to implementing new systems as well but at least those are exciting and, well, new. You'd be hard-pressed to find a single company that relies solely on digital processes. In terms of digitalisation everyone seems to be talking about AI, AR, robotics and technologies like Blockchain. However, while certainly interesting those aren't the main avenues for bringing about digital transformation. Replacing paper-based processes and doing away with the need for physical presence to conduct business are. So, Walmart will soon have robots running up and down their aisles while at the same time we still largely rely on paper for invoicing and accounting. We'll soon have self-driving cars for all our wonderful commuting but we still haven't figured out how to use technology for remote working to make travelling to a ridiculously expensive place called 'office' a thing of the past.
SamuelAdams 9y ago
>it costs basically nothing to implement too, Eh. Don't be so sure of this. Yes, this technology exists. No, it's typically not feasible to implement. The ROI simply doesn't make sense. Each store houses about 250,000 unique products. That means you'll need that many digital price tags. If they're $4 a peice (highly unlikely), thats 1M per store - and that's only in the new hardware. You also need to test different environments - will it work in freezers, coolers, and under heated lamps (150F temperatures)? Do those places have wifi access? Then you need to test and update the wireless infrastructure. Adding 250k devices to a network is not a small task. Then update whatever software exists to send out price updates. This is honestly the cheapest part, all things considered. And it can be applied to the whole chain / store by store, depends on the roll out strategy. All in all, it's at least 1 million per store. A brand new store costs the same amount. So you'd also be paying for the opportunity cost of not opening a new store. So you'd also lose out on the potential revenue of that new store. There's other factors to consider, but the math never shakes out positively. There are bigger fish to fry than price tags.
- sigstoat 9y ago
  > Each store houses about 250,000 unique products. https://corporate.walmart.com/_news_/news-archive/2005/01/07/our-retail-divisions https://corporate.walmart.com/_news_/news-archive/2005/01/07... "Supercenters average 187,000 square feet, employ 350 or more associates on average and offer 142,000 different items." > If they're $4 a peice (highly unlikely) looks like they're maybe $10 per on alibaba, in lowish volumes. > You also need to test different environments - will it work in freezers, coolers, and under heated lamps (150F temperatures)? they can just go check out any of the many places that already use such tags, and note that they work fine. > Do those places have wifi access? > Adding 250k devices to a network is not a small task. they use 433MHz ISM, and don't screw around with IP networking. here's an example device on alibaba https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Wireless-digital-price-tags-lcd-display_60338580763.html https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Wireless-digital-pric... > There's other factors to consider, but the math never shakes out positively. There are bigger fish to fry than price tags. they're used in hazel's in boulder, co. pretty sure i've seen them used in some other stores, though names aren't coming to mind at the moment.
- 9y ago
cr0sh 9y ago
Imagine if you got your wish (actually, at Kohls it is like this, last time I was there). Now imagine thru some method, they could tell which shopper was nearby shelves, looking - and who they were. Do a instant credit check lookup (perhaps with something special with the credit bureaus that don't put a ding on the report), to find out what that nearby shopper is "worth". Then instantly change the prices in that one area of the store - perhaps to gain just a few more pennies from a wealthy customer, or maybe (perhaps) to try to steer a customer to a particular brand who has paid the store for this purpose (by changing the prices of other brands to be higher, so that the buyer might go for the lower priced item if they are on a lower economic rung - or vice-versa to get them to buy a higher-cost item for perceived "luxury"). This would be easily possible with today's technology. It wouldn't be cheap to implement, and likely the back-end systems are so f-d up that it would take a revamp or a lot of work to get everything talking together properly, plus the attendant tech to recognize shoppers (cell phone IMEI? facial rec? something)... ...but I am certain that if the profit motive was there, and it offset those costs, it would be done. And Walmart would likely do it, too.
- magnetic 9y ago
  The offline world would then be on par with the online world when it comes to targeted pricing.
  - gruez 9y ago
    you can get around most of that using private browsing. but there's no "private browsing mode" in real life.
    - magnetic 9y ago
      Isn't it called "burqua browsing mode"? More seriously, of course it's harder in the offline world, I agree.
      - TeMPOraL 9y ago
        It is; regular people in the western world - especially men - aren't generally welcome in a shop when they're wearing face-covering masks, for security reasons.
Noos 9y ago
Paper doesn't break. The price on paper doesn't suddenly disappear because the internet is down or someone's program glitched, which is especially important for unit priced items which have strict laws about accuracy in pricing. You don't need to bug the home office everytime you need to change a price locally or they make an error in pricing because someone transposed a zip code number. I mean...we have something like this already with climate control and thermostats in offices and stores. The central control can screw up spectacularly at times,

duderific 9y ago

> and it costs basically nothing to implement too. I find that hard to believe, given the scale of Walmart's operations - they have close to 5000 stores, and who knows how much technical debt they have in their stocking/inventory systems.

kristofferR 9y ago
I clarified that I meant with labor taken into account. I don't understand the technical debt argument though - if a robot can scan prices to check that they are correct, a display should be able to display the price without any issue. The prices are obviously accedible in a database.
tradersam 9y ago
Considering the fact that Walmart's last FY earnings were something to the tune of $124.62B,[1] regardless of technical debt or other factors I don't think spending less than 1% of that to do a (probably) much needed upgrade is a hard sell to anyone rational. [1]: https://amigobulls.com/stocks/WMT/income-statement/annual https://amigobulls.com/stocks/WMT/income-statement/annual
- kondro 9y ago
  Gross profit is not net profit.
  - tradersam 9y ago
    You're right, my bad-I updated the comment. Still, even with their net income being $13.64B for the year, it doesn't seem like much of an issue, especially if rolled out over a multi-year period.

foobarrio 9y ago

At the very least you will need another little robot or human that goes by and verifies that the prices have actually been updated. I can't imagine the LCD price displayers will be super high reliable and built to last decades.

kristofferR 9y ago
You seem to think that electronic price labels is a new unproven technology, while it is actually extremely common and well tested. After the initial introduction period, where errors can occur, it's pretty much guaranteed to work as flawless as it does everywhere else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_shelf_label https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_shelf_label

bbarn 9y ago

Probably because it's the lowest common denominator across all states to follow codes. https://www.nist.gov/pml/weights-and-measures/us-retail-pricing-laws-and-regulations-state https://www.nist.gov/pml/weights-and-measures/us-retail-pric... A company the size of Walmart would need to employ many lawyers just to deal with state to state pricing laws.

jdietrich 9y ago

Shelves need to be checked, faced and re-stocked on a daily basis. Someone is already checking every shelf in the store every day, so the actual labour cost of changing paper price labels is remarkably small. Electronic shelf labels could facilitate dynamic price changes, but this is likely to be highly unpopular with customers. The mere presence of ESLs could imply volatile or manipulative pricing and undermine customer trust.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
> The mere presence of ESLs could imply volatile or manipulative pricing and undermine customer trust. It definitely does that for me. The heuristic I use in life is very simple - if it can be done and makes economic sense, it will be done. Volatile pricing can be done with electronic signs, and it definitely could seem to make economic sense to some companies.
- kristofferR 9y ago
  I'm actually extremely surprised that volatile prices aren't already common in the US. The grocery chains here in Norway update prices across the country as soon as they notice that competitors sell the same products cheaper (provided they want to be the cheapest for that product), often several times a day. ESLs have been very common in big stores since perhaps 2013. Our BestBuy alternative Power actually had a big ad campaign last year about how their digital signs and their price robot allows them to offer lower prices than what their competitors offer.

BjoernKW 9y ago

I suppose because modernising existing systems is tedious, error-prone and expensive. The latter two in principle apply to implementing new systems as well but at least those are exciting and, well, new. You'd be hard-pressed to find a single company that relies solely on digital processes. In terms of digitalisation everyone seems to be talking about AI, AR, robotics and technologies like Blockchain. However, while certainly interesting those aren't the main avenues for bringing about digital transformation. Replacing paper-based processes and doing away with the need for physical presence to conduct business are. So, Walmart will soon have robots running up and down their aisles while at the same time we still largely rely on paper for invoicing and accounting. We'll soon have self-driving cars for all our wonderful commuting but we still haven't figured out how to use technology for remote working to make travelling to a ridiculously expensive place called 'office' a thing of the past.

SamuelAdams 9y ago

>it costs basically nothing to implement too, Eh. Don't be so sure of this. Yes, this technology exists. No, it's typically not feasible to implement. The ROI simply doesn't make sense. Each store houses about 250,000 unique products. That means you'll need that many digital price tags. If they're $4 a peice (highly unlikely), thats 1M per store - and that's only in the new hardware. You also need to test different environments - will it work in freezers, coolers, and under heated lamps (150F temperatures)? Do those places have wifi access? Then you need to test and update the wireless infrastructure. Adding 250k devices to a network is not a small task. Then update whatever software exists to send out price updates. This is honestly the cheapest part, all things considered. And it can be applied to the whole chain / store by store, depends on the roll out strategy. All in all, it's at least 1 million per store. A brand new store costs the same amount. So you'd also be paying for the opportunity cost of not opening a new store. So you'd also lose out on the potential revenue of that new store. There's other factors to consider, but the math never shakes out positively. There are bigger fish to fry than price tags.

sigstoat 9y ago
> Each store houses about 250,000 unique products. https://corporate.walmart.com/_news_/news-archive/2005/01/07/our-retail-divisions https://corporate.walmart.com/_news_/news-archive/2005/01/07... "Supercenters average 187,000 square feet, employ 350 or more associates on average and offer 142,000 different items." > If they're $4 a peice (highly unlikely) looks like they're maybe $10 per on alibaba, in lowish volumes. > You also need to test different environments - will it work in freezers, coolers, and under heated lamps (150F temperatures)? they can just go check out any of the many places that already use such tags, and note that they work fine. > Do those places have wifi access? > Adding 250k devices to a network is not a small task. they use 433MHz ISM, and don't screw around with IP networking. here's an example device on alibaba https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Wireless-digital-price-tags-lcd-display_60338580763.html https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Wireless-digital-pric... > There's other factors to consider, but the math never shakes out positively. There are bigger fish to fry than price tags. they're used in hazel's in boulder, co. pretty sure i've seen them used in some other stores, though names aren't coming to mind at the moment.
9y ago

cr0sh 9y ago

Imagine if you got your wish (actually, at Kohls it is like this, last time I was there). Now imagine thru some method, they could tell which shopper was nearby shelves, looking - and who they were. Do a instant credit check lookup (perhaps with something special with the credit bureaus that don't put a ding on the report), to find out what that nearby shopper is "worth". Then instantly change the prices in that one area of the store - perhaps to gain just a few more pennies from a wealthy customer, or maybe (perhaps) to try to steer a customer to a particular brand who has paid the store for this purpose (by changing the prices of other brands to be higher, so that the buyer might go for the lower priced item if they are on a lower economic rung - or vice-versa to get them to buy a higher-cost item for perceived "luxury"). This would be easily possible with today's technology. It wouldn't be cheap to implement, and likely the back-end systems are so f-d up that it would take a revamp or a lot of work to get everything talking together properly, plus the attendant tech to recognize shoppers (cell phone IMEI? facial rec? something)... ...but I am certain that if the profit motive was there, and it offset those costs, it would be done. And Walmart would likely do it, too.

magnetic 9y ago
The offline world would then be on par with the online world when it comes to targeted pricing.
- gruez 9y ago
  you can get around most of that using private browsing. but there's no "private browsing mode" in real life.
  - magnetic 9y ago
    Isn't it called "burqua browsing mode"? More seriously, of course it's harder in the offline world, I agree.
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      It is; regular people in the western world - especially men - aren't generally welcome in a shop when they're wearing face-covering masks, for security reasons.

Noos 9y ago

Paper doesn't break. The price on paper doesn't suddenly disappear because the internet is down or someone's program glitched, which is especially important for unit priced items which have strict laws about accuracy in pricing. You don't need to bug the home office everytime you need to change a price locally or they make an error in pricing because someone transposed a zip code number. I mean...we have something like this already with climate control and thermostats in offices and stores. The central control can screw up spectacularly at times,