3 ms·

Hmmmmm weren't we talking about Nazis, not identity politics...

briantakita 9y ago
What's your definition of a Nazi? It's difficult to talk about a word that has a fuzzy meaning. To some elements of the the modern left (i.e. Antifa), it seems like anybody who does not agree with certain ideologies, such as "Equality" (in the Identity Politics sense; again "Equality" has a fuzzy meaning), is equated with being a Nazi. To paraphrase what I wrote above, the White Nationalist (aka "the Nazis") movement only gains followers due to the prevalence of Identity Politics being used to affect policy benefiting certain minority groups. White Nationalism is Identity Politics for White People; seeking to use politics to benefit White People and/or creating a white ethno-state. Are you seeing the connection? Is this any different from groups such as La Raza, the Black Panthers, or any other ethno-state group? If so, how?
- neo4sure 9y ago
  Why is Equality an ideology? Isn't it basic human decency?
  - tscs37 9y ago
    Lots of people disagree on the exact type of equality humanity should be aiming for.
    - briantakita 9y ago
      > Lots of people disagree on the exact type of equality humanity should be aiming for. It's a complicated domain. There are other measures of humanity, such as Freedom, Liberty, & Incentives for Fitness (i.e. Morality). The root question is do the ends justify the means? Do you want Equality of outcome so much that you are willing to adopt Fascism to achieve those aims? Even then, you won't have Equality. As in Animal Farm... "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others" The only way we can possibly achieve Equality is through death, & even then, the dead are unequally remembered.
      - tscs37 9y ago
        re: measures of humanity; I meant humanity as in the species, not as a quality. >The root question is do the ends justify the means? I do not believe the ends will ever justify the means, but that is just my opinion on the matter. >Do you want Equality of outcome so much that you are willing to adopt Fascism to achieve those aims? I'm personally satisfied with equality of chance such that everyone has an equal chance of doing what they want but are not guaranteed to succeed either.
        neo4sure 9y ago
        I would say equality vote is very important it was missing in this country not long ago. I would say that demonstrates an unyielding vein in this country that seems to be against equality. However, equality was achieved without violence. Why is violence required for your argument?
        tscs37 9y ago
        >I would say equality vote is very important it was missing in this country not long ago. If you mean equality of vote; it's just another version of equality of chance. Everyone gets a chance to vote and be voted for, the outcome may not be equality. The other option is equality of outcome, which is antithetical to equality of vote. >Why is violence required for your argument? It's not. I recognize that sometimes violence is an inevitable outcome but everyone should be looking for non-violent means that make the least amount of people unhappy. I don't think I ever made violence necessary for my argument tbh...
    - neo4sure 9y ago
      Specifically the NAZIS.
      - dang 9y ago
        If you can't or won't stop posting unsubstantive comments here, we're going to end up banning you. Please fix this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

What's your definition of a Nazi? It's difficult to talk about a word that has a fuzzy meaning. To some elements of the the modern left (i.e. Antifa), it seems like anybody who does not agree with certain ideologies, such as "Equality" (in the Identity Politics sense; again "Equality" has a fuzzy meaning), is equated with being a Nazi. To paraphrase what I wrote above, the White Nationalist (aka "the Nazis") movement only gains followers due to the prevalence of Identity Politics being used to affect policy benefiting certain minority groups. White Nationalism is Identity Politics for White People; seeking to use politics to benefit White People and/or creating a white ethno-state. Are you seeing the connection? Is this any different from groups such as La Raza, the Black Panthers, or any other ethno-state group? If so, how?

neo4sure 9y ago
Why is Equality an ideology? Isn't it basic human decency?
- tscs37 9y ago
  Lots of people disagree on the exact type of equality humanity should be aiming for.
  - briantakita 9y ago
    > Lots of people disagree on the exact type of equality humanity should be aiming for. It's a complicated domain. There are other measures of humanity, such as Freedom, Liberty, & Incentives for Fitness (i.e. Morality). The root question is do the ends justify the means? Do you want Equality of outcome so much that you are willing to adopt Fascism to achieve those aims? Even then, you won't have Equality. As in Animal Farm... "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others" The only way we can possibly achieve Equality is through death, & even then, the dead are unequally remembered.
    - tscs37 9y ago
      re: measures of humanity; I meant humanity as in the species, not as a quality. >The root question is do the ends justify the means? I do not believe the ends will ever justify the means, but that is just my opinion on the matter. >Do you want Equality of outcome so much that you are willing to adopt Fascism to achieve those aims? I'm personally satisfied with equality of chance such that everyone has an equal chance of doing what they want but are not guaranteed to succeed either.
      - neo4sure 9y ago
        I would say equality vote is very important it was missing in this country not long ago. I would say that demonstrates an unyielding vein in this country that seems to be against equality. However, equality was achieved without violence. Why is violence required for your argument?
        tscs37 9y ago
        >I would say equality vote is very important it was missing in this country not long ago. If you mean equality of vote; it's just another version of equality of chance. Everyone gets a chance to vote and be voted for, the outcome may not be equality. The other option is equality of outcome, which is antithetical to equality of vote. >Why is violence required for your argument? It's not. I recognize that sometimes violence is an inevitable outcome but everyone should be looking for non-violent means that make the least amount of people unhappy. I don't think I ever made violence necessary for my argument tbh...
  - neo4sure 9y ago
    Specifically the NAZIS.
    - dang 9y ago
      If you can't or won't stop posting unsubstantive comments here, we're going to end up banning you. Please fix this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html