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> I go there and talk to the White Nationalists. They are pretty much Nazis. Nazi is a term loosely used today. Actual 3rd Reich Nazis commandeered by America

> I go there and talk to the White Nationalists. They are pretty much Nazis. Nazi is a term loosely used today. Actual 3rd Reich Nazis commandeered by America & the Soviet Union after WW2. Wernher von Braun was a committed Nazi & was allegedly a willing participate in WW2 war crimes. See Operation Paperclip for more info. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Operation_Paperclip https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Operation_Paperclip > They are scared and powerless, looking for meaning in their empty lives, easily swayed, and not entirely unaware of some of the ironies. White Nationalism is the natural response to Identity Politics. In a sense, I don't blame them for not taking the high road, since Identity Politics has not been kind toward white people & the majority of white people think they are discriminated against. Btw, every racial group thinks they are discriminated against, so it seems like Identity Politics leaves nobody happy. http://www.npr.org/2017/10/24/559604836/majority-of-white-americans-think-theyre-discriminated-against http://www.npr.org/2017/10/24/559604836/majority-of-white-am... This leads to the real problem being Identity Politics. White Nationalism, Black Power, La Raza, various Jewish groups, etc. are all entities that create dissonance in the communities of America. Whether the members have valid points or not, there is a sense of tribalism & the inherent backlash. While it's healthy to promote heritage, legacy, & the positive aspects of a cultural identity; Identity Politics sows division by redistributing opportunity (which is unfair from a merit standpoint) & transferring wealth via government policy. If we are to have a society based on hard work leading to just reward, where opportunity is given to all, then Identity Politics has no place in it. Even if Identity Politics were to balance opportunity, the underlying issues within communities are not addressed. Instead, the government manages opportunity leading to a culture of entitlement, laziness, dispute, grudges, & group hostility.

neo4sure 9y ago
Hmmmmm weren't we talking about Nazis, not identity politics...
- briantakita 9y ago
  What's your definition of a Nazi? It's difficult to talk about a word that has a fuzzy meaning. To some elements of the the modern left (i.e. Antifa), it seems like anybody who does not agree with certain ideologies, such as "Equality" (in the Identity Politics sense; again "Equality" has a fuzzy meaning), is equated with being a Nazi. To paraphrase what I wrote above, the White Nationalist (aka "the Nazis") movement only gains followers due to the prevalence of Identity Politics being used to affect policy benefiting certain minority groups. White Nationalism is Identity Politics for White People; seeking to use politics to benefit White People and/or creating a white ethno-state. Are you seeing the connection? Is this any different from groups such as La Raza, the Black Panthers, or any other ethno-state group? If so, how?
  - neo4sure 9y ago
    Why is Equality an ideology? Isn't it basic human decency?
    - tscs37 9y ago
      Lots of people disagree on the exact type of equality humanity should be aiming for.
      - briantakita 9y ago
        > Lots of people disagree on the exact type of equality humanity should be aiming for. It's a complicated domain. There are other measures of humanity, such as Freedom, Liberty, & Incentives for Fitness (i.e. Morality). The root question is do the ends justify the means? Do you want Equality of outcome so much that you are willing to adopt Fascism to achieve those aims? Even then, you won't have Equality. As in Animal Farm... "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others" The only way we can possibly achieve Equality is through death, & even then, the dead are unequally remembered.
        tscs37 9y ago
        re: measures of humanity; I meant humanity as in the species, not as a quality. >The root question is do the ends justify the means? I do not believe the ends will ever justify the means, but that is just my opinion on the matter. >Do you want Equality of outcome so much that you are willing to adopt Fascism to achieve those aims? I'm personally satisfied with equality of chance such that everyone has an equal chance of doing what they want but are not guaranteed to succeed either.
        neo4sure 9y ago
        I would say equality vote is very important it was missing in this country not long ago. I would say that demonstrates an unyielding vein in this country that seems to be against equality. However, equality was achieved without violence. Why is violence required for your argument?
kstrauser 9y ago
> Nazi is a term loosely used today. Not by me. When I say Nazi, I specifically mean someone who publicly identifies with that group, uses their words, wears their clothes, and carries their flag: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/09/alt-weakened-dead-charlottesville-170920081948414.html http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/09/alt-weaken... If you show up to a rally carrying a Nazi flag, I'll unapologetically call you a Nazi. It's only identity politics in the sense that I'm identifying the politics someone espouses based on the symbols and words they're using.
- briantakita 9y ago
  > If you show up to a rally carrying a Nazi flag, I'll unapologetically call you a Nazi Maybe I need to get out more, but I've never seen a person carrying a Nazi flag, nor have I seen an actual person with any swastika gear; other than a Jew who had a Buddhist painting with a row of Swastikas. I looked at the flag in Charlottesville & it looked quite new (still had creases). Also the man carrying the flag looked nothing like your typical Neo-Nazi. It's also interesting that this person was not doxxed. It's not out of the realm of possibility that this person was a paid agitator. There has been cases where people fake KKK vandalism. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/10/24/african-american-man-charged-with-anti-black-vandalism-that-shook-eastern-michigan-university/?utm_term=.67178bd2b32a https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/10/2... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/andrew-mcclinton-arrested-in-burning-of-black-church-in-mississippi/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/andrew-mcclinton-arrested-in-bu... But who knows. Maybe we have an epidemic of Nazis (& KKK) in the United States. If there is, wouldn't there be Nazis marching in the streets every week or so in every state? If anybody benefits from this Neo-Nazi scare, it's the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), who rakes in Hundreds of Millions of Dollars peddling fear; while transferring Millions to offshore accounts... http://freebeacon.com/issues/southern-poverty-law-center-transfers-millions-in-cash-to-offshore-entities/ http://freebeacon.com/issues/southern-poverty-law-center-tra... > It's only identity politics in the sense that I'm identifying the politics someone espouses based on the symbols and words they're using. Is this similar to how Antifa attacks supporters of the evil Yamika wearing "Nazi" Ben Shapiro in Berkeley?
  - deleted 9y ago
mcphage 9y ago
> since Identity Politics has not been kind toward white people & the majority of white people think they are discriminated against That's true... before Identity Politics, white people had most of the money and power and authority in this country. But now thanks to Identity Politics, white people have only... well, most of the money and power and authority in this country. Huh.
- briantakita 9y ago
  White people can practice Identity Politics as well. The ultimate expression of Identity Politics is genocide. It has happened many times & is still happening in some parts of the world. I hope that you can see that this is not a road that we want to go down.

neo4sure 9y ago

Hmmmmm weren't we talking about Nazis, not identity politics...

briantakita 9y ago
What's your definition of a Nazi? It's difficult to talk about a word that has a fuzzy meaning. To some elements of the the modern left (i.e. Antifa), it seems like anybody who does not agree with certain ideologies, such as "Equality" (in the Identity Politics sense; again "Equality" has a fuzzy meaning), is equated with being a Nazi. To paraphrase what I wrote above, the White Nationalist (aka "the Nazis") movement only gains followers due to the prevalence of Identity Politics being used to affect policy benefiting certain minority groups. White Nationalism is Identity Politics for White People; seeking to use politics to benefit White People and/or creating a white ethno-state. Are you seeing the connection? Is this any different from groups such as La Raza, the Black Panthers, or any other ethno-state group? If so, how?
- neo4sure 9y ago
  Why is Equality an ideology? Isn't it basic human decency?
  - tscs37 9y ago
    Lots of people disagree on the exact type of equality humanity should be aiming for.
    - briantakita 9y ago
      > Lots of people disagree on the exact type of equality humanity should be aiming for. It's a complicated domain. There are other measures of humanity, such as Freedom, Liberty, & Incentives for Fitness (i.e. Morality). The root question is do the ends justify the means? Do you want Equality of outcome so much that you are willing to adopt Fascism to achieve those aims? Even then, you won't have Equality. As in Animal Farm... "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others" The only way we can possibly achieve Equality is through death, & even then, the dead are unequally remembered.
      - tscs37 9y ago
        re: measures of humanity; I meant humanity as in the species, not as a quality. >The root question is do the ends justify the means? I do not believe the ends will ever justify the means, but that is just my opinion on the matter. >Do you want Equality of outcome so much that you are willing to adopt Fascism to achieve those aims? I'm personally satisfied with equality of chance such that everyone has an equal chance of doing what they want but are not guaranteed to succeed either.
        neo4sure 9y ago
        I would say equality vote is very important it was missing in this country not long ago. I would say that demonstrates an unyielding vein in this country that seems to be against equality. However, equality was achieved without violence. Why is violence required for your argument?

kstrauser 9y ago

> Nazi is a term loosely used today. Not by me. When I say Nazi, I specifically mean someone who publicly identifies with that group, uses their words, wears their clothes, and carries their flag: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/09/alt-weakened-dead-charlottesville-170920081948414.html http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/09/alt-weaken... If you show up to a rally carrying a Nazi flag, I'll unapologetically call you a Nazi. It's only identity politics in the sense that I'm identifying the politics someone espouses based on the symbols and words they're using.

briantakita 9y ago
> If you show up to a rally carrying a Nazi flag, I'll unapologetically call you a Nazi Maybe I need to get out more, but I've never seen a person carrying a Nazi flag, nor have I seen an actual person with any swastika gear; other than a Jew who had a Buddhist painting with a row of Swastikas. I looked at the flag in Charlottesville & it looked quite new (still had creases). Also the man carrying the flag looked nothing like your typical Neo-Nazi. It's also interesting that this person was not doxxed. It's not out of the realm of possibility that this person was a paid agitator. There has been cases where people fake KKK vandalism. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/10/24/african-american-man-charged-with-anti-black-vandalism-that-shook-eastern-michigan-university/?utm_term=.67178bd2b32a https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/10/2... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/andrew-mcclinton-arrested-in-burning-of-black-church-in-mississippi/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/andrew-mcclinton-arrested-in-bu... But who knows. Maybe we have an epidemic of Nazis (& KKK) in the United States. If there is, wouldn't there be Nazis marching in the streets every week or so in every state? If anybody benefits from this Neo-Nazi scare, it's the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), who rakes in Hundreds of Millions of Dollars peddling fear; while transferring Millions to offshore accounts... http://freebeacon.com/issues/southern-poverty-law-center-transfers-millions-in-cash-to-offshore-entities/ http://freebeacon.com/issues/southern-poverty-law-center-tra... > It's only identity politics in the sense that I'm identifying the politics someone espouses based on the symbols and words they're using. Is this similar to how Antifa attacks supporters of the evil Yamika wearing "Nazi" Ben Shapiro in Berkeley?
- deleted 9y ago

mcphage 9y ago

> since Identity Politics has not been kind toward white people & the majority of white people think they are discriminated against That's true... before Identity Politics, white people had most of the money and power and authority in this country. But now thanks to Identity Politics, white people have only... well, most of the money and power and authority in this country. Huh.

briantakita 9y ago
White people can practice Identity Politics as well. The ultimate expression of Identity Politics is genocide. It has happened many times & is still happening in some parts of the world. I hope that you can see that this is not a road that we want to go down.