4 ms·

There's no shade of gray here? Either you host nazi propaganda, or you're "anti-free speech?"

by lobf 9y ago

blfr 9y ago
Reddit, Twitter and others have banned a much wider selection of posters and communities than nazis. Of course they lead with NAZIS! but then it's anything from r/coontown to voting in the wrong thread. To answer your question, you're not running a bastion of free speech if you ban people for their political opinions.
- lobf 9y ago
  Fortunately reddit is banning communities that advocate violence, not communities with certain sets of politics. It just so happens that there's a major overlap of political views to inciting violence. Even the first amendment recognizes that there are limits to free speech- namely when they infringe on other people's rights.
  - jquery 9y ago
    Which political views would those be? Most of the politically-incited violence of the past few years has been left-wing. From Antifa, to the Berkeley riots, to the BLM riots (and BLM-inspired cop executions in Houston), and the "Bernie-bro" attempted assassination.
    - libertyEQ 9y ago
      It was Dallas, not Houston. >Most of the politically-incited violence of the past few years has been left-wing. Is this claim based on data or anecdotes?
      - jquery 9y ago
        From the WITS - https://imgur.com/a/nE1of https://imgur.com/a/nE1of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_Incidents_Tracking_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_Incidents_Tracking_S... If you know a good replacement, please let me know. That's worldwide data, but even using worldwide data, there just aren't that many violent Nazis out there.
        libertyEQ 9y ago
        This is going to take me a few minutes... WITS was discontinued 5 years ago. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/us/politics/theories-meaning-trump-many-sides-remark.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/us/politics/theories-mean... https://www.thenation.com/article/why-does-the-far-right-hold-a-near-monopoly-on-political-violence/ https://www.thenation.com/article/why-does-the-far-right-hol... [warning, pdf] https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/documents/MurderAndExtremismInUS2016.pdf https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/documents/MurderAndE... [2015 study; warning, pdf] https://sites.duke.edu/tcths/files/2013/06/Kurzman_Schanzer_Law_Enforcement_Assessment_of_the_Violent_Extremist_Threat_final.pdf https://sites.duke.edu/tcths/files/2013/06/Kurzman_Schanzer_... I'm actually quite certain that antifa has either been infiltrated by agent provocateurs or is populated by useful idiots. I say this as a life long Republican (until March '03). Edit: Am I supposed to summarize these 4 articles in order to be considered adequate response to a wiki link of an org that was dissolved 5 years ago?
duiker101 9y ago
The thing is, free speech must be free, which can include stuff that can be unpleasant. If you want moderate speech, which is what most communities end up for, than that's fine, but it's not free speech. Free speech is often a double edged sword. For everyone. While it's a nice concept it often carries big burdens that can't be easily tackled. Reddit used to profess free speech. But the reality is that it's not sustainable as the website grew and started to cater to very different audiences. And as they grew they also needed to start to please advertisers. Which are often times vehemently against a lot of things that would fall under the "free speech"

There's no shade of gray here? Either you host nazi propaganda, or you're "anti-free speech?"

by lobf 9y ago

There's no shade of gray here? Either you host nazi propaganda, or you're "anti-free speech?"

blfr 9y ago

Reddit, Twitter and others have banned a much wider selection of posters and communities than nazis. Of course they lead with NAZIS! but then it's anything from r/coontown to voting in the wrong thread. To answer your question, you're not running a bastion of free speech if you ban people for their political opinions.

lobf 9y ago
Fortunately reddit is banning communities that advocate violence, not communities with certain sets of politics. It just so happens that there's a major overlap of political views to inciting violence. Even the first amendment recognizes that there are limits to free speech- namely when they infringe on other people's rights.
- jquery 9y ago
  Which political views would those be? Most of the politically-incited violence of the past few years has been left-wing. From Antifa, to the Berkeley riots, to the BLM riots (and BLM-inspired cop executions in Houston), and the "Bernie-bro" attempted assassination.
  - libertyEQ 9y ago
    It was Dallas, not Houston. >Most of the politically-incited violence of the past few years has been left-wing. Is this claim based on data or anecdotes?
    - jquery 9y ago
      From the WITS - https://imgur.com/a/nE1of https://imgur.com/a/nE1of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_Incidents_Tracking_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_Incidents_Tracking_S... If you know a good replacement, please let me know. That's worldwide data, but even using worldwide data, there just aren't that many violent Nazis out there.
      - libertyEQ 9y ago
        This is going to take me a few minutes... WITS was discontinued 5 years ago. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/us/politics/theories-meaning-trump-many-sides-remark.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/us/politics/theories-mean... https://www.thenation.com/article/why-does-the-far-right-hold-a-near-monopoly-on-political-violence/ https://www.thenation.com/article/why-does-the-far-right-hol... [warning, pdf] https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/documents/MurderAndExtremismInUS2016.pdf https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/documents/MurderAndE... [2015 study; warning, pdf] https://sites.duke.edu/tcths/files/2013/06/Kurzman_Schanzer_Law_Enforcement_Assessment_of_the_Violent_Extremist_Threat_final.pdf https://sites.duke.edu/tcths/files/2013/06/Kurzman_Schanzer_... I'm actually quite certain that antifa has either been infiltrated by agent provocateurs or is populated by useful idiots. I say this as a life long Republican (until March '03). Edit: Am I supposed to summarize these 4 articles in order to be considered adequate response to a wiki link of an org that was dissolved 5 years ago?

duiker101 9y ago

The thing is, free speech must be free, which can include stuff that can be unpleasant. If you want moderate speech, which is what most communities end up for, than that's fine, but it's not free speech. Free speech is often a double edged sword. For everyone. While it's a nice concept it often carries big burdens that can't be easily tackled. Reddit used to profess free speech. But the reality is that it's not sustainable as the website grew and started to cater to very different audiences. And as they grew they also needed to start to please advertisers. Which are often times vehemently against a lot of things that would fall under the "free speech"