5 ms·

"To me, this is absurd. This is a human rights issue (homelessness is growing by a large amount)." Homelessness is a mental health issue. Nobody is homeless b

by rsync 9y ago

"To me, this is absurd. This is a human rights issue (homelessness is growing by a large amount)." Homelessness is a mental health issue. Nobody is homeless because of foreign speculators. Yes, people are indeed incentivized to relocate to housing markets that Chinese people have never heard of like, for instance, Tacoma. If those people spent half their time working and saving (like their parents did) as they spent bitching about their basic human right to live in a walkable neighborhood with artisanal foodstuffs they would then have a nice down payment when the inevitable crash comes to the hot housing market in question.

jdavis703 9y ago
What about people who have lived in neighborhoods for decades, but were since evicted (i.e. their SRO was converted to luxury whatever)? Sure they may be near the economic fringe, but the poor will always be with us. How can we enable the poor to participate in the rich economy that cities create? Or should cities become only playgrounds for the upper middle class and wealthy?
SandersAK 9y ago
Mental health is one reason why people are homeless but it's not the only one. The reasons you're bringing up are strawmen at best. The people who are homeless or on the brink of homelessness are not complaining about artisanal food stuffs. In Oakland, a family of 4 has been living in a single family home for 15 years. This year, after new owners purchased the property, the rent went up 100% in one year. Needless to say, they are facing a housing crisis where they will be homeless. If you want to understand the severity of the situation, I suggest just literally googling "homelessness housing crisis bay area" and read all the both qualitative and quantitive reporting done on the issue. Here's a brief stat overview to refute your claim that it's a "mental issue" primarily: http://www.socialsolutions.com/blog/2016-homelessness-statistics/ http://www.socialsolutions.com/blog/2016-homelessness-statis...
- rsync 9y ago
  "If you want to understand the severity of the situation, I suggest just literally googling "homelessness housing crisis bay area" and read all the both qualitative and quantitive reporting done on the issue." As a resident of the bay area I assure you that I read about this topic every single day - and consume a wide range of reporting and editorial.[1] "... the rent went up 100% in one year. Needless to say, they are facing a housing crisis where they will be homeless." That's not obvious at all. Certainly that's a very difficult situation and I suppose it is technically true that they will indeed be homeless as they physically move their bodies to their new home ... but there is nothing at all new or noteworthy about people making rational economic decisions about what they can and cannot afford - and voting with their feet for new locales. The only thing that's new (and this is something I encounter more and more frequently, especially in the bay area) is the idea that not only is housing a basic human right but housing in an arbitrary location without any consideration of ones actual economic status is a basic human right. This is, I am afraid, absurd. I am open-minded about the notion of housing as a human right. I completely reject the notion of housing wherever one most prefers[2] as a basic human right (or any kind of right whatsoever). [1] 48 Hills, for example. [2] Where you grew up, where you raised your kids, where the cool restaurants are, where the artists are at ... etc.
  - foldr 9y ago
    It's not "housing where one most prefers" in this instance, it's "housing where you're already lived for years, and where your children go to school".
    - toasterlovin 9y ago
      Honestly, counting on being able to rent a single family home for an extended period of time is insane. That they were able to live there for over a decade makes them an outlier. Most single family homes are owned by individuals. Individuals and/or their heirs often need liquidity, so rental houses are way more likely to change hands than apartment buildings.
      - foldr 9y ago
majormajor 9y ago
If homelessness goes up 10% in a year, are you saying that means the incidence of mental illness somehow went up 10% in that year?
njarboe 9y ago
It probably was the case 5 years ago that most homeless people in the US has some kind of mental problem. These people were almost all men and you would see them sleeping on the sidewalks or parks with almost nothing in the way of possessions. Now, at least in Oakland, there are tents everywhere. From single ones trying not to get noticed to tent cities with 10-50 tents all in one area. Many of these people have a piles of possessions and some still have jobs. Maybe not quite on the scale of Hoovervilles in the Great Depression, but getting there.
- webnrrd2k 9y ago
  I'm confused... Are you saying homelessness can't be a mental health issue because they now have tents? Or because they have possessions?
  - njarboe 9y ago
    Not at all. I even stated directly that in the recent past most homeless people had mental health issues. Now added to this first group are people that just can't afford the rent and have been evicted or pushed onto the street.
- toasterlovin 9y ago
  I truly have no idea what the situation actually is, but here is an, IMO, plausible explanation: policing practices around homelessness have changed as a result of changing attitudes toward the homeless (toward increasing acceptance) and this has created an environment in which the homeless are now able to accumulate possessions and erect semi-permanent shelters. Another, plausible scenario (again, IMO): if certain liberal cities have a reputation for being relatively accepting toward the homeless, there may be a simultaneous net migration of homeless from less accepting parts of the country to these cities.
ryuker16 9y ago
When the crash comes they are probably too busy using those savings to stay afloat after losing jobs. You'd be an idiot to invest unless your in a super stable job or confident you can find another quick in a recession. I've been in a similar situation and thank god for Airbnb.
s73ver_ 9y ago
Yup. Totally because people aren't hard workers. Nothing at all to do with the fact that wages have been stagnant at best over the last 30 years, and housing prices have ballooned.
closeparen 9y ago
>basic human right to live in a walkable neighborhood Somehow we have a societal consensus that it's your basic human right to live in a quiet neighborhood free of traffic, shadows, or other humans. It's good to see some push in the opposite direction.

by rsync 9y ago

jdavis703 9y ago

What about people who have lived in neighborhoods for decades, but were since evicted (i.e. their SRO was converted to luxury whatever)? Sure they may be near the economic fringe, but the poor will always be with us. How can we enable the poor to participate in the rich economy that cities create? Or should cities become only playgrounds for the upper middle class and wealthy?

SandersAK 9y ago

Mental health is one reason why people are homeless but it's not the only one. The reasons you're bringing up are strawmen at best. The people who are homeless or on the brink of homelessness are not complaining about artisanal food stuffs. In Oakland, a family of 4 has been living in a single family home for 15 years. This year, after new owners purchased the property, the rent went up 100% in one year. Needless to say, they are facing a housing crisis where they will be homeless. If you want to understand the severity of the situation, I suggest just literally googling "homelessness housing crisis bay area" and read all the both qualitative and quantitive reporting done on the issue. Here's a brief stat overview to refute your claim that it's a "mental issue" primarily: http://www.socialsolutions.com/blog/2016-homelessness-statistics/ http://www.socialsolutions.com/blog/2016-homelessness-statis...

rsync 9y ago
"If you want to understand the severity of the situation, I suggest just literally googling "homelessness housing crisis bay area" and read all the both qualitative and quantitive reporting done on the issue." As a resident of the bay area I assure you that I read about this topic every single day - and consume a wide range of reporting and editorial.[1] "... the rent went up 100% in one year. Needless to say, they are facing a housing crisis where they will be homeless." That's not obvious at all. Certainly that's a very difficult situation and I suppose it is technically true that they will indeed be homeless as they physically move their bodies to their new home ... but there is nothing at all new or noteworthy about people making rational economic decisions about what they can and cannot afford - and voting with their feet for new locales. The only thing that's new (and this is something I encounter more and more frequently, especially in the bay area) is the idea that not only is housing a basic human right but housing in an arbitrary location without any consideration of ones actual economic status is a basic human right. This is, I am afraid, absurd. I am open-minded about the notion of housing as a human right. I completely reject the notion of housing wherever one most prefers[2] as a basic human right (or any kind of right whatsoever). [1] 48 Hills, for example. [2] Where you grew up, where you raised your kids, where the cool restaurants are, where the artists are at ... etc.
- foldr 9y ago
  It's not "housing where one most prefers" in this instance, it's "housing where you're already lived for years, and where your children go to school".
  - toasterlovin 9y ago
    Honestly, counting on being able to rent a single family home for an extended period of time is insane. That they were able to live there for over a decade makes them an outlier. Most single family homes are owned by individuals. Individuals and/or their heirs often need liquidity, so rental houses are way more likely to change hands than apartment buildings.
    - foldr 9y ago

majormajor 9y ago

If homelessness goes up 10% in a year, are you saying that means the incidence of mental illness somehow went up 10% in that year?

njarboe 9y ago

It probably was the case 5 years ago that most homeless people in the US has some kind of mental problem. These people were almost all men and you would see them sleeping on the sidewalks or parks with almost nothing in the way of possessions. Now, at least in Oakland, there are tents everywhere. From single ones trying not to get noticed to tent cities with 10-50 tents all in one area. Many of these people have a piles of possessions and some still have jobs. Maybe not quite on the scale of Hoovervilles in the Great Depression, but getting there.

webnrrd2k 9y ago
I'm confused... Are you saying homelessness can't be a mental health issue because they now have tents? Or because they have possessions?
- njarboe 9y ago
  Not at all. I even stated directly that in the recent past most homeless people had mental health issues. Now added to this first group are people that just can't afford the rent and have been evicted or pushed onto the street.
toasterlovin 9y ago
I truly have no idea what the situation actually is, but here is an, IMO, plausible explanation: policing practices around homelessness have changed as a result of changing attitudes toward the homeless (toward increasing acceptance) and this has created an environment in which the homeless are now able to accumulate possessions and erect semi-permanent shelters. Another, plausible scenario (again, IMO): if certain liberal cities have a reputation for being relatively accepting toward the homeless, there may be a simultaneous net migration of homeless from less accepting parts of the country to these cities.

ryuker16 9y ago

When the crash comes they are probably too busy using those savings to stay afloat after losing jobs. You'd be an idiot to invest unless your in a super stable job or confident you can find another quick in a recession. I've been in a similar situation and thank god for Airbnb.

s73ver_ 9y ago

Yup. Totally because people aren't hard workers. Nothing at all to do with the fact that wages have been stagnant at best over the last 30 years, and housing prices have ballooned.

closeparen 9y ago

>basic human right to live in a walkable neighborhood Somehow we have a societal consensus that it's your basic human right to live in a quiet neighborhood free of traffic, shadows, or other humans. It's good to see some push in the opposite direction.