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Because not all work in academia is interesting. I don't know about your field but academic research is more about doing what your funding bodies want you to do

Because not all work in academia is interesting. I don't know about your field but academic research is more about doing what your funding bodies want you to do or following the latest trend to get funding. Publishing can be a political game where institution and contacts matter more than merit. Advancement in your career can be the same. I don't want to make a blanket statement for everyone because I am sure there are varying experiences. If academia is about interesting research, then I would gladly take your perspective. But sadly, from my experience (life sciences), to get anywhere, it is 3/4 bullshit work (admin, politics) and 1/4 interesting work. I imagine I can find a job in industry that's 1/4 interesting work and get paid a lot more for it. So it's not about "values". Let's not religion-fy academia and infuse it with a semblance of "virtue" associated with doing research. Scientists shouldn't be monks for science.

Balgair 9y ago
I'll echo this. The large majority of PIs I have interacted with (or know of via friends/family) could care less about their research. You get a skewed view from conferences, presentations, TED Talks, etc. They are 'on stage' at those events and are 'selling' their research largely. Get a beer in them and the facade drops quickly (ok, 3 beers for the people that really hate the mess, their tolerance is higher)
deleted 9y ago
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hyperbovine 9y ago
Well, that wasn't the claim, that all work in science is interesting. It was that mine is. And it very clearly is about values. Your hypothetical job in industry that's 3/4 uninteresting sounds awful to me. I'd never want that. For any (realistic) amount of money.
- daemonk 9y ago
  What I meant by "values" is some kind of moral superiority that seems to be espoused by a lot of people I've met in academia. That somehow not pursuing academic research is "selling out". This idea is implicitly ingrained in a lot of graduate students when they enter the program. In my opinion, this is all to justify the shitty treatment. And I find this mentality very similar to organized religions where you are expected to make personal sacrifice in the name of some abstract notion. Of course, this also exists in industry. Big tech companies sell their "vision" and "culture" in the same way. But at least they pay their employees relatively better. I am glad you have a rewarding academic career and I hope you continue to enjoy it. I personally didn't find academia that enjoyable. The science was interesting, but academia is not just about science these days.
  - hyperbovine 9y ago
    You know, I get the point you are making, and there is some truth to it. But overblown statements like "academia is just not about science these days" totally undermine the rest of your argument. It's unfortunate that you had a bad experience, but extrapolating that to an indictment of _all of science_ seems like sour grapes. A lot of people, the majority, are doing good work. It's not the caricature you make it out to be.

Balgair 9y ago

I'll echo this. The large majority of PIs I have interacted with (or know of via friends/family) could care less about their research. You get a skewed view from conferences, presentations, TED Talks, etc. They are 'on stage' at those events and are 'selling' their research largely. Get a beer in them and the facade drops quickly (ok, 3 beers for the people that really hate the mess, their tolerance is higher)

deleted 9y ago

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hyperbovine 9y ago

Well, that wasn't the claim, that all work in science is interesting. It was that mine is. And it very clearly is about values. Your hypothetical job in industry that's 3/4 uninteresting sounds awful to me. I'd never want that. For any (realistic) amount of money.

daemonk 9y ago
What I meant by "values" is some kind of moral superiority that seems to be espoused by a lot of people I've met in academia. That somehow not pursuing academic research is "selling out". This idea is implicitly ingrained in a lot of graduate students when they enter the program. In my opinion, this is all to justify the shitty treatment. And I find this mentality very similar to organized religions where you are expected to make personal sacrifice in the name of some abstract notion. Of course, this also exists in industry. Big tech companies sell their "vision" and "culture" in the same way. But at least they pay their employees relatively better. I am glad you have a rewarding academic career and I hope you continue to enjoy it. I personally didn't find academia that enjoyable. The science was interesting, but academia is not just about science these days.
- hyperbovine 9y ago
  You know, I get the point you are making, and there is some truth to it. But overblown statements like "academia is just not about science these days" totally undermine the rest of your argument. It's unfortunate that you had a bad experience, but extrapolating that to an indictment of _all of science_ seems like sour grapes. A lot of people, the majority, are doing good work. It's not the caricature you make it out to be.