8 ms·

That is, erm, sonethingh different, cough. I also wonder what about lobbyism in general. Why is this allowed and the other not. Because it’s good for economy?

That is, erm, sonethingh different, cough. I also wonder what about lobbyism in general. Why is this allowed and the other not. Because it’s good for economy? What if it’s still bad for society?

tertius 9y ago
> What if it’s still bad for society? I think we can both agree that we don't want @jack to be the arbiter of that...
alexasmyths 9y ago
Lobbyism is just 'someone making a case'. It's not unreasonable for individuals or groups to 'lobby their cause' to politicians. It just has a bad name because it can be abused. And yes, it's not unreasonable for nation-state actors to take steps to thwart American intervention in whatever. Though often, the state in question is not elected, which begs a serious question of legitimacy -> if you're going to make a 'moral equivalence' argument of tit-for-tat interference ... it's hard to do if one side is a dictatorship. :)
- tertius 9y ago
  We're talking about Russia right? Not North Korea?
  - alexasmyths 9y ago
    Russia does not have open elections. Political opposition figures, business figures and members of the press are murdered or imprisoned arbitrarily. Media networks and large businesses are arbitrarily confiscated. Primary media channels are direct forms of state propaganda. State agencies are deeply systematically corrupt - always in the control of the friends of Putin, taking massive kickbacks, using state power to force deals. Sochi is a good example of how these shennanigans work. See the CBC expose on Sochi construction - kickbacks were up to 85% on construction (i.e. state pays $500M for a building, most of it goes back to the buyer, a 'friend of Putin'), and 15% goes into actual construction. So it's not 'North Korea' but it's not a normal democracy, not by a stretch.
    - tertius 9y ago
      Ah, so a corrupt democracy.
      - alexasmyths 9y ago
        Classifications are so hard. One could surely argue that America's democracy is somewhat corrupted as well. I guess it's all a matter of manner and degree :)
- hennsen 9y ago
  Agreed that lobbyism itself is just “asking politicians to consider your wishes” by any group of interest. I mean industry lobbyism by mega-corporations with the single goal of growth and financial gain without respecting the effects on society and nature (which in turn has an impact on society in terms of health and wellbeing)...

That is, erm, sonethingh different, cough. I also wonder what about lobbyism in general. Why is this allowed and the other not. Because it’s good for economy? What if it’s still bad for society?

tertius 9y ago

> What if it’s still bad for society? I think we can both agree that we don't want @jack to be the arbiter of that...

alexasmyths 9y ago

Lobbyism is just 'someone making a case'. It's not unreasonable for individuals or groups to 'lobby their cause' to politicians. It just has a bad name because it can be abused. And yes, it's not unreasonable for nation-state actors to take steps to thwart American intervention in whatever. Though often, the state in question is not elected, which begs a serious question of legitimacy -> if you're going to make a 'moral equivalence' argument of tit-for-tat interference ... it's hard to do if one side is a dictatorship. :)

tertius 9y ago
We're talking about Russia right? Not North Korea?
- alexasmyths 9y ago
  Russia does not have open elections. Political opposition figures, business figures and members of the press are murdered or imprisoned arbitrarily. Media networks and large businesses are arbitrarily confiscated. Primary media channels are direct forms of state propaganda. State agencies are deeply systematically corrupt - always in the control of the friends of Putin, taking massive kickbacks, using state power to force deals. Sochi is a good example of how these shennanigans work. See the CBC expose on Sochi construction - kickbacks were up to 85% on construction (i.e. state pays $500M for a building, most of it goes back to the buyer, a 'friend of Putin'), and 15% goes into actual construction. So it's not 'North Korea' but it's not a normal democracy, not by a stretch.
  - tertius 9y ago
    Ah, so a corrupt democracy.
    - alexasmyths 9y ago
      Classifications are so hard. One could surely argue that America's democracy is somewhat corrupted as well. I guess it's all a matter of manner and degree :)
hennsen 9y ago
Agreed that lobbyism itself is just “asking politicians to consider your wishes” by any group of interest. I mean industry lobbyism by mega-corporations with the single goal of growth and financial gain without respecting the effects on society and nature (which in turn has an impact on society in terms of health and wellbeing)...