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There was a report sometime ago about companies in London (probably happening elsewhere too) asking interns to pay them to get an internship (if I remember corr

by vijayr 9y ago

There was a report sometime ago about companies in London (probably happening elsewhere too) asking interns to pay them to get an internship (if I remember correctly, it was in fashion and journalism). And many people did so, because it helps them get a foot in the door. I guess with more and more automation, problems like these are only going to get worse.

chaostheory 9y ago
Weiden Kennedy actually did that with http://www.wk.com/campaign/wk_ http://www.wk.com/campaign/wk_ I’m not sure it’s totally a bad thing. You get to work for a renowned agency. The problem is that it excludes skilled people who don’t already have money
- dsr_ 9y ago
  Among authors, Yog's Law is widely known. I assure you it applies to every field: “Money flows toward the writer.” or, to generalize: Money flows towards the people doing the work. Anything which involves the other direction is a scam of some kind. If Weiden Kennedy thinks that they are so awesome that people should pay them to learn from them, the legitimate thing to do is to open a school, not pretend that they are employees.
  - chaostheory 9y ago
    To be clear, I'm just the messenger - a neutral one. I'm not strongly espousing one view over another. As for the W+K project, they did sell it as a school or school like experience that gives you a real W+K project, instead of an internship where the interns pay. One guy who got into YC was part of it: https://www.theymadethat.com/people/j81421/rudy-adler https://www.theymadethat.com/people/j81421/rudy-adler
  - ralmidani 9y ago
    My wife is studying nutrition. To become a registered dietitian and be able to work in many (if not most) US states, you have to do a months-long internship at a hospital or similar facility. __you__ pay for the privilege. And when you finish, dietitian salaries are __pitiful__ compared to less rigorous health professions which don't require a Bachelors degree.
    - dsr_ 9y ago
      Is she working, or learning? For example, in most states mental health therapists are required to finish their course of study with a certain large number of hours working "under supervision". They pay for the supervision, but at the same time they are working, so they are paid by their patients. Paying for an education isn't a scam. If registered dietitians have to pay for their "internship", where they actually do work for the facility but don't get paid for it, yes, I think that's a scam too. Just because it's institutionalized doesn't make it an ethical practice.
      - plurifunding 9y ago
        In UK, certain hospitals charge 500£ applications fees for Clinical Internships (these are taken on by Migrant Medicine Graduates) so they can get at least 3 month UK NHS experience, so they can get their foot on the ladder... They only shadow to be fair, don't do any work... But, some countries will charge 5 times for visa applications, before they actually grant you a visa... UK, Canada, etc... It's an old age practice... In the old times of the geisha's, parents would pay the brothel to take up the daughters... So why wonder?
      - ralmidani 9y ago
        She is studying right now. The internship is after she gets her degree.
    - s73ver_ 9y ago
      Yes, that is also shitty and should not be allowed.
  - PeterisP 9y ago
    There's a rule of thumb that money should flow in the opposite direction of problems, and if it's not, then the process is deeply flawed and unsustainable. Pay an employee to take care of the company's problems; get paid by customers to take care of their problems; but if they're not paying you, their problems aren't your problems.
gumby 9y ago
I assume a company in fashion journalism's model is "we sell to rich, well-connected people so we want to employ the kids rich and well-connected people who will be able to appreciate the needs of our customer base, not to mention make the right connections for us too." Using money to screen out the unqualified candidates sounds sensible. Next they should require that the money paid comes from your parents and is not yours. OK, I was intending to be snarky and cynical but re-reading that...apart from the last sentence it probably is their plan!
godzillabrennus 9y ago
There is a racket in Ivey league schools where students with bad grades will pay for help getting internships. These middle men will the go pay companies to secure internships. I’d expect more of this happening as the divide between rich and poor deepens.
- fjsolwmv 9y ago
  Whaaaa? What kind of shit company would take a loser on board for a paltry payout,m
  - Pica_soO 9y ago
    Its to rigged to fail. You dont hire the son or the daughter, you are networking with the father.
  - godzillabrennus 9y ago
    Startups
s73ver_ 9y ago
Not if we use the force of government to flat out ban the practice.

by vijayr 9y ago

chaostheory 9y ago

Weiden Kennedy actually did that with http://www.wk.com/campaign/wk_ http://www.wk.com/campaign/wk_ I’m not sure it’s totally a bad thing. You get to work for a renowned agency. The problem is that it excludes skilled people who don’t already have money

dsr_ 9y ago
Among authors, Yog's Law is widely known. I assure you it applies to every field: “Money flows toward the writer.” or, to generalize: Money flows towards the people doing the work. Anything which involves the other direction is a scam of some kind. If Weiden Kennedy thinks that they are so awesome that people should pay them to learn from them, the legitimate thing to do is to open a school, not pretend that they are employees.
- chaostheory 9y ago
  To be clear, I'm just the messenger - a neutral one. I'm not strongly espousing one view over another. As for the W+K project, they did sell it as a school or school like experience that gives you a real W+K project, instead of an internship where the interns pay. One guy who got into YC was part of it: https://www.theymadethat.com/people/j81421/rudy-adler https://www.theymadethat.com/people/j81421/rudy-adler
- ralmidani 9y ago
  My wife is studying nutrition. To become a registered dietitian and be able to work in many (if not most) US states, you have to do a months-long internship at a hospital or similar facility. __you__ pay for the privilege. And when you finish, dietitian salaries are __pitiful__ compared to less rigorous health professions which don't require a Bachelors degree.
  - dsr_ 9y ago
    Is she working, or learning? For example, in most states mental health therapists are required to finish their course of study with a certain large number of hours working "under supervision". They pay for the supervision, but at the same time they are working, so they are paid by their patients. Paying for an education isn't a scam. If registered dietitians have to pay for their "internship", where they actually do work for the facility but don't get paid for it, yes, I think that's a scam too. Just because it's institutionalized doesn't make it an ethical practice.
    - plurifunding 9y ago
      In UK, certain hospitals charge 500£ applications fees for Clinical Internships (these are taken on by Migrant Medicine Graduates) so they can get at least 3 month UK NHS experience, so they can get their foot on the ladder... They only shadow to be fair, don't do any work... But, some countries will charge 5 times for visa applications, before they actually grant you a visa... UK, Canada, etc... It's an old age practice... In the old times of the geisha's, parents would pay the brothel to take up the daughters... So why wonder?
    - ralmidani 9y ago
      She is studying right now. The internship is after she gets her degree.
  - s73ver_ 9y ago
    Yes, that is also shitty and should not be allowed.
- PeterisP 9y ago
  There's a rule of thumb that money should flow in the opposite direction of problems, and if it's not, then the process is deeply flawed and unsustainable. Pay an employee to take care of the company's problems; get paid by customers to take care of their problems; but if they're not paying you, their problems aren't your problems.

gumby 9y ago

I assume a company in fashion journalism's model is "we sell to rich, well-connected people so we want to employ the kids rich and well-connected people who will be able to appreciate the needs of our customer base, not to mention make the right connections for us too." Using money to screen out the unqualified candidates sounds sensible. Next they should require that the money paid comes from your parents and is not yours. OK, I was intending to be snarky and cynical but re-reading that...apart from the last sentence it probably is their plan!

godzillabrennus 9y ago

There is a racket in Ivey league schools where students with bad grades will pay for help getting internships. These middle men will the go pay companies to secure internships. I’d expect more of this happening as the divide between rich and poor deepens.

fjsolwmv 9y ago
Whaaaa? What kind of shit company would take a loser on board for a paltry payout,m
- Pica_soO 9y ago
  Its to rigged to fail. You dont hire the son or the daughter, you are networking with the father.
- godzillabrennus 9y ago
  Startups

s73ver_ 9y ago

Not if we use the force of government to flat out ban the practice.