4 ms·

That susceptability is borne, perhaps rightly so, from mistrust of our government - just look at the election, both sides were going to great lengths including

That susceptability is borne, perhaps rightly so, from mistrust of our government - just look at the election, both sides were going to great lengths including speaking to foreign powers in order to try to get dirt on the other, and one went as far as to use federal law enforcement for political gain. Once our government learns that the consequence for subverting the trust of their citizenry is chaos, things will get better. But not until then. These people work for us, not the other way around.

pvg 9y ago
both sides were going to great lengths including speaking to foreign powers in order to try to get dirt on the other, and one went as far as to use federal law enforcement for political gain. Other than the one thing for which there is some evidence, all of these are conspiracy theories so perhaps you're making your point but not in the way you'd like.
- jerkstate 9y ago
  Oh yeah? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/clinton-campaign-dnc-paid-for-research-that-led-to-russia-dossier/2017/10/24/226fabf0-b8e4-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_dossier-630pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.401a7c949591 https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/clint... http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/18/politics/fbi-dossier-carter-page-donald-trump-russia-investigation/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/18/politics/fbi-dossier-carter-pa...
  - lern_too_spel 9y ago
    Neither of those articles says a campaign used the government to do its investigation. The Clinton campaign used a private investigation firm in your first article just like all campaigns in history. The FBI investigated Trump in your second article because that's its job — it didn't give special access to the Clinton campaign. You've proven GP's point.
    - jerkstate 9y ago
      Why don't you just call me a Russian bot or a paid shill and we can reach the logical conclusion of this exchange?
    - archgoon 9y ago
      I followed the links to find out which governments the Hillary campaign had been working with. Neither of them did this. I'm not sure why your post was downvoted.
      - jerkstate 9y ago
        Well, if you look into what Fusion GPS is (a lobbying firm working for the Russians on the Magnitsky Act, requested the meeting with Donald Trump Jr under pretenses of having damaging info on Clinton, recently refusing to appear and ultimately pleading the fifth in front of the senate intelligence committee, and under fire for failure to register under FARA) then I can understand your confusion about why it's bad that the DNC paid them 9 million dollars for a shaky dossier which has already had parts discredited, and then delivered that dossier to the FBI. Strange that the newspaper would leave those interesting parts out, right? Edit: here is a source backing up the claims about Fusion GPS https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/07/11/inside-the-link-between-the-russian-lawyer-who-met-donald-trump-jr-and-the-trump-dossier/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/07/11...
        lern_too_spel 9y ago
        > Strange that the newspaper would leave those interesting parts out, right? What's strange is that you cited as a source a newspaper article you don't agree with and which not only doesn't support but discredits your original claim. Then you spin wild conspiracy theories essentially claiming that Fusion GPS is an arm of the Kremlin without any sources.
        archgoon 9y ago
        This is a much better explanation of your links than a simple "Oh yeah". However, this information is not present in your links. Perhaps you should understand that not everyone is familiar with what you know, and you should provide more context? Also, the entire point of providing links is to back claims, you need to now provided additional links to the ones you just made. (EDIT: Now provided. Thank you). I'm still baffled why these reasonable concerns, no context being provided, is receiving a ridiculous number of downvotes.
pjc50 9y ago
Putting all of "government" in one box is like having a software architecture diagram with a single box labelled "code". In this case, there are plenty of factions which are capable of profiting from that chaos. It's not an accident, it's their preferred outcome. Mostly factions within the Republican party fighting against the "permanent state".

pvg 9y ago

both sides were going to great lengths including speaking to foreign powers in order to try to get dirt on the other, and one went as far as to use federal law enforcement for political gain. Other than the one thing for which there is some evidence, all of these are conspiracy theories so perhaps you're making your point but not in the way you'd like.

jerkstate 9y ago
Oh yeah? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/clinton-campaign-dnc-paid-for-research-that-led-to-russia-dossier/2017/10/24/226fabf0-b8e4-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_dossier-630pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.401a7c949591 https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/clint... http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/18/politics/fbi-dossier-carter-page-donald-trump-russia-investigation/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/18/politics/fbi-dossier-carter-pa...
- lern_too_spel 9y ago
  Neither of those articles says a campaign used the government to do its investigation. The Clinton campaign used a private investigation firm in your first article just like all campaigns in history. The FBI investigated Trump in your second article because that's its job — it didn't give special access to the Clinton campaign. You've proven GP's point.
  - jerkstate 9y ago
    Why don't you just call me a Russian bot or a paid shill and we can reach the logical conclusion of this exchange?
  - archgoon 9y ago
    I followed the links to find out which governments the Hillary campaign had been working with. Neither of them did this. I'm not sure why your post was downvoted.
    - jerkstate 9y ago
      Well, if you look into what Fusion GPS is (a lobbying firm working for the Russians on the Magnitsky Act, requested the meeting with Donald Trump Jr under pretenses of having damaging info on Clinton, recently refusing to appear and ultimately pleading the fifth in front of the senate intelligence committee, and under fire for failure to register under FARA) then I can understand your confusion about why it's bad that the DNC paid them 9 million dollars for a shaky dossier which has already had parts discredited, and then delivered that dossier to the FBI. Strange that the newspaper would leave those interesting parts out, right? Edit: here is a source backing up the claims about Fusion GPS https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/07/11/inside-the-link-between-the-russian-lawyer-who-met-donald-trump-jr-and-the-trump-dossier/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/07/11...
      - lern_too_spel 9y ago
        > Strange that the newspaper would leave those interesting parts out, right? What's strange is that you cited as a source a newspaper article you don't agree with and which not only doesn't support but discredits your original claim. Then you spin wild conspiracy theories essentially claiming that Fusion GPS is an arm of the Kremlin without any sources.
      - archgoon 9y ago
        This is a much better explanation of your links than a simple "Oh yeah". However, this information is not present in your links. Perhaps you should understand that not everyone is familiar with what you know, and you should provide more context? Also, the entire point of providing links is to back claims, you need to now provided additional links to the ones you just made. (EDIT: Now provided. Thank you). I'm still baffled why these reasonable concerns, no context being provided, is receiving a ridiculous number of downvotes.

pjc50 9y ago

Putting all of "government" in one box is like having a software architecture diagram with a single box labelled "code". In this case, there are plenty of factions which are capable of profiting from that chaos. It's not an accident, it's their preferred outcome. Mostly factions within the Republican party fighting against the "permanent state".