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> The susceptibility of Americans to shitty lies, conspiracy theories, and a lack of numeracy is a vastly greater threat to the integrity of the US government a

> The susceptibility of Americans to shitty lies, conspiracy theories, and a lack of numeracy is a vastly greater threat to the integrity of the US government and much more difficult to fix. This susceptibility is likely not particular to Americans. It's this difficult-to-fix nature that necessitates taking an indirect approach to solving this problem.

mcny 9y ago
> This susceptibility is likely not particular to Americans. It's this difficult-to-fix nature that necessitates taking an indirect approach to solving this problem. There was a podcast where locals in a small town in Eastern Ukraine said they leave the area immediately if a camera crew (for tv news I presume) shows up because they think wherever there is a camera crew in that town, the chances of some kind of bombing or another becomes very high. I mean there are various degrees of "fake" news. One could argue that "suits are back" [submarine] is fake news as well. [submarine] http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
eternalban 9y ago
> an indirect approach How about a direct approach: Governments should stop lying 24/7 to their citizens; Corporate Media needs to get off (rather kicked off) the privileged 'Fourth Estate' pedastal; and education and mental health issues are taken [as] central and fundamental issues to address. That would do it.
- theorique 9y ago
  What do education and mental health issues have to do with this?
  - eternalban 9y ago
    Humanity imho clearly suffers from various forms of psychological problems and is generally poorly educated. Our problem is that the power elite have historically considered the first a lost cause and confused propaganda with education. And here we are. And far as I can deduce, civilization boils down to sanity and thoughtfulness. The rest is window dressing and 'product'. (I am /not/ dismissing the fruits here, but rather focusing on 'roots'.) What is necessary is sanity. What is necessary is the ability to think effectively. Individually and collectively. Everything else is secondary, and if the former are lacking, abundance in other dimensions only gets you so far and then it peters out.
pjc50 9y ago
Such as the radio stations involved in the Rwandan genocide, or the current allegations that Facebook posts are being used to incite violence and ethnic cleansing in Myanmar.
grandalf 9y ago
So RT publishes articles about things like the Flint Michigan water crisis and the many government failures that led to it. You are telling me that this story and the great reporting about issues like this that the RT has published are horrible because they might impact American democracy? The victims of the Flint crisis are some of the poorest Americans who do not have a voice in politics. For RT to report on issues of concern to the least empowered Americans may cause political change but that is not a bad thing. Papers that generate ad revenue from subscribers averaging over $100K per year in income simply won't write certain stories because nobody would care to read them.
- wyldfire 9y ago
  If RT's not-terribly-covert goal were to sow discord and along the way they happen to do good things that are aligned with their goal, should they still be penalized? Yes, IMO, they should. On net, they are not an honest "journalism" organization IMO and should suffer. > Papers that generate ad revenue from subscribers averaging over $100K per year in income simply won't write certain stories because nobody would care to read them. State media outlets can afford to lose tons of ad revenue for their cause. They create a remarkable simulation of the press that they exercise considerable editorial control over.
  - grandalf 9y ago
    Please name five honest journalism organizations.

mcny 9y ago

> This susceptibility is likely not particular to Americans. It's this difficult-to-fix nature that necessitates taking an indirect approach to solving this problem. There was a podcast where locals in a small town in Eastern Ukraine said they leave the area immediately if a camera crew (for tv news I presume) shows up because they think wherever there is a camera crew in that town, the chances of some kind of bombing or another becomes very high. I mean there are various degrees of "fake" news. One could argue that "suits are back" [submarine] is fake news as well. [submarine] http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

eternalban 9y ago

> an indirect approach How about a direct approach: Governments should stop lying 24/7 to their citizens; Corporate Media needs to get off (rather kicked off) the privileged 'Fourth Estate' pedastal; and education and mental health issues are taken [as] central and fundamental issues to address. That would do it.

theorique 9y ago
What do education and mental health issues have to do with this?
- eternalban 9y ago
  Humanity imho clearly suffers from various forms of psychological problems and is generally poorly educated. Our problem is that the power elite have historically considered the first a lost cause and confused propaganda with education. And here we are. And far as I can deduce, civilization boils down to sanity and thoughtfulness. The rest is window dressing and 'product'. (I am /not/ dismissing the fruits here, but rather focusing on 'roots'.) What is necessary is sanity. What is necessary is the ability to think effectively. Individually and collectively. Everything else is secondary, and if the former are lacking, abundance in other dimensions only gets you so far and then it peters out.

pjc50 9y ago

Such as the radio stations involved in the Rwandan genocide, or the current allegations that Facebook posts are being used to incite violence and ethnic cleansing in Myanmar.

grandalf 9y ago

So RT publishes articles about things like the Flint Michigan water crisis and the many government failures that led to it. You are telling me that this story and the great reporting about issues like this that the RT has published are horrible because they might impact American democracy? The victims of the Flint crisis are some of the poorest Americans who do not have a voice in politics. For RT to report on issues of concern to the least empowered Americans may cause political change but that is not a bad thing. Papers that generate ad revenue from subscribers averaging over $100K per year in income simply won't write certain stories because nobody would care to read them.

wyldfire 9y ago
If RT's not-terribly-covert goal were to sow discord and along the way they happen to do good things that are aligned with their goal, should they still be penalized? Yes, IMO, they should. On net, they are not an honest "journalism" organization IMO and should suffer. > Papers that generate ad revenue from subscribers averaging over $100K per year in income simply won't write certain stories because nobody would care to read them. State media outlets can afford to lose tons of ad revenue for their cause. They create a remarkable simulation of the press that they exercise considerable editorial control over.
- grandalf 9y ago
  Please name five honest journalism organizations.