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You can disagree but it's the basics of game design, both Tetris and GTA are made fun by tuning variable-ratio reinforcements: https://www.gamasutra.com/view/fe

by ivm 9y ago

You can disagree but it's the basics of game design, both Tetris and GTA are made fun by tuning variable-ratio reinforcements: https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131494/behavioral_game_design.php https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131494/behavioral_gam... Game designers dream and talk a lot about creating the "flow" which is also achieved by correct reward ratio: https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/166972/cognitive_flow_the_psychology_of_.php https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/166972/cognitive_flow... The problem with the whole subthread is me assuming that everybody is more familiar with the subject and not writing a detailed explanation from the beginning.

cousin_it 9y ago
The article on reinforcement doesn't mention Tetris or Mario, only RPGs with experience points and such. The article on flow doesn't mention reinforcement or reward. I can see you're thinking of them as parts of one narrative, but I don't think the articles support it. Flow is a pleasant challenging activity which is easy to accidentally drop out of. It's very different from clicking loot crates, which is unpleasant, unchallenging, and hard to stop. I'm not sure they even involve the same parts of the brain.
- ivm 9y ago
  RPG is just the best example. The article about flow says the same in the requirements but it doesn't use the terms from psychology: > 1. Have concrete goals [Reinforcers] with manageable rules [Contingency]. > 3. Have clear and timely feedback [Response] on performance and goal accomplishment. I'm not making things up – just retelling the common knowledge that I used for work. Ask other game designers if you do not believe me. I understand that deconstructing pleasant experiences into a set of primitive triggers is uncomfortable (hence, over a dozen downvotes) but it's useful to see what pulls the strings from behind the curtain.

by ivm 9y ago

cousin_it 9y ago

The article on reinforcement doesn't mention Tetris or Mario, only RPGs with experience points and such. The article on flow doesn't mention reinforcement or reward. I can see you're thinking of them as parts of one narrative, but I don't think the articles support it. Flow is a pleasant challenging activity which is easy to accidentally drop out of. It's very different from clicking loot crates, which is unpleasant, unchallenging, and hard to stop. I'm not sure they even involve the same parts of the brain.

ivm 9y ago
RPG is just the best example. The article about flow says the same in the requirements but it doesn't use the terms from psychology: > 1. Have concrete goals [Reinforcers] with manageable rules [Contingency]. > 3. Have clear and timely feedback [Response] on performance and goal accomplishment. I'm not making things up – just retelling the common knowledge that I used for work. Ask other game designers if you do not believe me. I understand that deconstructing pleasant experiences into a set of primitive triggers is uncomfortable (hence, over a dozen downvotes) but it's useful to see what pulls the strings from behind the curtain.