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Should be titled, "I remotely tunnel to a server using my iPad Pro for programming" very misleading. Furthermore to the point: what's the benefit of tunneling t

Should be titled, "I remotely tunnel to a server using my iPad Pro for programming" very misleading. Furthermore to the point: what's the benefit of tunneling to a remote machine for dev work? The latency would suck as would the overall slowness of things, it would drive you insane. You can hammer nails into a piece of wood using a rock, but why would you when you can use a hammer?

zimpenfish 9y ago
> Furthermore to the point: what's the benefit of tunneling to a remote machine for dev work? You can do it from anywhere; you don't need a powerful local machine; controlling what devs do is easier; etc. 3 of my last 4 contracts have been development on remote machines. It's perfectly fine unless you somehow have abysmal networking (and then you really have bigger problems.)
- codegladiator 9y ago
  I love to work offline. Sometimes I am most productive when there is no network. > You can do it from anywhere; you don't need a powerful local machine; controlling what devs do is easier; etc. I can do that from my mobile too. There is absolutely no comparision with the "powerful local machine". And yes, you do need a powerful local machine, unless you are just writing text.
- DigitalSea 9y ago
  In your instance though, it sounds like the development on remote machines was a client choice and not your own? The author is choosing to develop remotely themselves because Docker makes their MacBook get hot and burns their thighs when they don't wear pants. Would have just been easier to buy one of those laptop rests with inbuilt fans than spend money on a monthly server though, right?
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    > the development on remote machines was a client choice and not your own? I do 90% of my personal development on remote servers too.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  > controlling what devs do is easier That's not exactly a benefit for the dev. > You can do it from anywhere; you don't need a powerful local machine That's fair, but arguably, that's an argument for CEO to own an iPad, so that they can log in to company network from whatever country they happen to be in this week. For regular employees, that seems like introducing a stupidly huge amount of pointless friction into the dev process, which will directly impact productivity.
- scaryclam 9y ago
  s/You can do it from anywhere/You can do it from anywhere you have an Internet connection and a local terminal with the correct setup/ If you already take the local terminal around with you, then there's really no benefit to "You can do it from anywhere" as that's 1) not true, you need an Internet connection, and 2) you can do the same thing, even offline, with a halfway decent laptop. If you want to work from a terminal and log onto a server remotely to get stuff done, that's absolutely fine, each to their own! Just please don't paint it as better than having your local setup on a laptop, since it's not really. Apologies if you weren't saying that, but it came across as such.
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    > Just please don't paint it as better Nope, wasn't doing that at all. Just pointing out that you can't apply a blanket "It's not as good" like many commenters are.
pjc50 9y ago
The latency really doesn't need to be that bad. If you can play games on an internet connection it's definitely good enough to type on. (Someone will now come out of the woodwork to remind us of when they did all their development over a 300-baud serial teletype, uphill both ways)
- speedplane 9y ago
  At the last place I worked, all of our desktop computers were thin clients that logged into a virtual machine in a data center somewhere 30 miles away. The company had special network connections and even though latency was noticeable (especially scrolling large graphics), it was tolerable and good enough to get work done. However, at home, I would routinely login to the same remote computer and the latency was horrible, every typed letter was delayed a tenth of a second or so. I wasn't about to spend a fortune on a dedicated line to the work servers. The point is, when you're working remotely, you're totally at the mercy of the network. If the network is down or flaky, you can't get anything done.
  - falcolas 9y ago
    That 10th of a second case is where Mosh shines - you typically won't notice the typing latency, even with closer to a full second of latency. It's more noticeable when jumping around the code, but I've found that such activities are not as intolerant of latency.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  Multiplayer games cheat a lot to ensure smooth gameplay. For instance, they usually run a local game instance and respond to your input immediately, and only then retroactively correct the game state after a round-trip to the server. I could imagine a middleware doing similar cheating for shell, but in general, you'd have to have a stripped local version of software doing local simulation to ensure videogame-like smooth experience.
Direct 9y ago
I have been doing this for 4 years. I can rent a 16 core server for a couple of years for less cost than a low entry Macbook, with a 1Gbps line. With mosh, I can develop literally anywhere with no lag at all (or at least, no noticeable lag) even with a 3G connection. I can RDP to an EC2 Windows instance when I need a quick Windows machine, again with minimal lag even over 3G. I sold my desktop, and now use a cheap £200 garbage laptop as a thin-client to my machine. Not only do I get incredible compile performance due to being able to use 16 core Xeon's, but I am not tied to any desktop. I can whip out my phone and pop open a tmux session from anywhere, in an emergency I can hop onto a friends computer and thanks to SSH 2FA fearlessly login to my dev system with my full environment that I never have to close. At this point, I would actively avoid jobs that wouldn't let me work this way. Currently got a sweet remote gig and I'm going to fly to Spain next week and spend a couple of weeks coding on the beach with my 3G tethered laptop. Edit: Just to clarify, I don't need to work in an IDE or use any Windows software that I couldn't tunnel over X. So it might not work for everyone. Just wanted to give an example of it working out great for someone.
- anopows 9y ago
  Which service do you use for renting a server?
  - Direct 9y ago
    Used to use a SoYouStart E5-1650v2 for the 6 Core/12 Hyper-Threads. I moved when I got a sweet server auction deal with two Xeon's but recently moved to Hetzner because the price for their AX50 Ryzen 1700X + 32GB of RAM is hard to beat.
- TheArcane 9y ago
  > I can develop literally anywhere Except on airplanes.
  - Direct 9y ago
    Or underground trains, or long tunnels, or hikes, or many things. Hopefully though the typical developer doesn't spend the majority of his time on an airplane. Me personally, I don't need to be coding so consistently that the loss of a few hours on a plane is going to stop me doing this.
dang 9y ago
OK we've used your suggestion. Thanks!
TheArcane 9y ago
I think someone edited the title of my submission. I wasn't sure that was possible.

zimpenfish 9y ago

> Furthermore to the point: what's the benefit of tunneling to a remote machine for dev work? You can do it from anywhere; you don't need a powerful local machine; controlling what devs do is easier; etc. 3 of my last 4 contracts have been development on remote machines. It's perfectly fine unless you somehow have abysmal networking (and then you really have bigger problems.)

codegladiator 9y ago
I love to work offline. Sometimes I am most productive when there is no network. > You can do it from anywhere; you don't need a powerful local machine; controlling what devs do is easier; etc. I can do that from my mobile too. There is absolutely no comparision with the "powerful local machine". And yes, you do need a powerful local machine, unless you are just writing text.
DigitalSea 9y ago
In your instance though, it sounds like the development on remote machines was a client choice and not your own? The author is choosing to develop remotely themselves because Docker makes their MacBook get hot and burns their thighs when they don't wear pants. Would have just been easier to buy one of those laptop rests with inbuilt fans than spend money on a monthly server though, right?
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  > the development on remote machines was a client choice and not your own? I do 90% of my personal development on remote servers too.
TeMPOraL 9y ago
> controlling what devs do is easier That's not exactly a benefit for the dev. > You can do it from anywhere; you don't need a powerful local machine That's fair, but arguably, that's an argument for CEO to own an iPad, so that they can log in to company network from whatever country they happen to be in this week. For regular employees, that seems like introducing a stupidly huge amount of pointless friction into the dev process, which will directly impact productivity.
scaryclam 9y ago
s/You can do it from anywhere/You can do it from anywhere you have an Internet connection and a local terminal with the correct setup/ If you already take the local terminal around with you, then there's really no benefit to "You can do it from anywhere" as that's 1) not true, you need an Internet connection, and 2) you can do the same thing, even offline, with a halfway decent laptop. If you want to work from a terminal and log onto a server remotely to get stuff done, that's absolutely fine, each to their own! Just please don't paint it as better than having your local setup on a laptop, since it's not really. Apologies if you weren't saying that, but it came across as such.
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  > Just please don't paint it as better Nope, wasn't doing that at all. Just pointing out that you can't apply a blanket "It's not as good" like many commenters are.

pjc50 9y ago

The latency really doesn't need to be that bad. If you can play games on an internet connection it's definitely good enough to type on. (Someone will now come out of the woodwork to remind us of when they did all their development over a 300-baud serial teletype, uphill both ways)

speedplane 9y ago
At the last place I worked, all of our desktop computers were thin clients that logged into a virtual machine in a data center somewhere 30 miles away. The company had special network connections and even though latency was noticeable (especially scrolling large graphics), it was tolerable and good enough to get work done. However, at home, I would routinely login to the same remote computer and the latency was horrible, every typed letter was delayed a tenth of a second or so. I wasn't about to spend a fortune on a dedicated line to the work servers. The point is, when you're working remotely, you're totally at the mercy of the network. If the network is down or flaky, you can't get anything done.
- falcolas 9y ago
  That 10th of a second case is where Mosh shines - you typically won't notice the typing latency, even with closer to a full second of latency. It's more noticeable when jumping around the code, but I've found that such activities are not as intolerant of latency.
TeMPOraL 9y ago
Multiplayer games cheat a lot to ensure smooth gameplay. For instance, they usually run a local game instance and respond to your input immediately, and only then retroactively correct the game state after a round-trip to the server. I could imagine a middleware doing similar cheating for shell, but in general, you'd have to have a stripped local version of software doing local simulation to ensure videogame-like smooth experience.

Direct 9y ago

I have been doing this for 4 years. I can rent a 16 core server for a couple of years for less cost than a low entry Macbook, with a 1Gbps line. With mosh, I can develop literally anywhere with no lag at all (or at least, no noticeable lag) even with a 3G connection. I can RDP to an EC2 Windows instance when I need a quick Windows machine, again with minimal lag even over 3G. I sold my desktop, and now use a cheap £200 garbage laptop as a thin-client to my machine. Not only do I get incredible compile performance due to being able to use 16 core Xeon's, but I am not tied to any desktop. I can whip out my phone and pop open a tmux session from anywhere, in an emergency I can hop onto a friends computer and thanks to SSH 2FA fearlessly login to my dev system with my full environment that I never have to close. At this point, I would actively avoid jobs that wouldn't let me work this way. Currently got a sweet remote gig and I'm going to fly to Spain next week and spend a couple of weeks coding on the beach with my 3G tethered laptop. Edit: Just to clarify, I don't need to work in an IDE or use any Windows software that I couldn't tunnel over X. So it might not work for everyone. Just wanted to give an example of it working out great for someone.

anopows 9y ago
Which service do you use for renting a server?
- Direct 9y ago
  Used to use a SoYouStart E5-1650v2 for the 6 Core/12 Hyper-Threads. I moved when I got a sweet server auction deal with two Xeon's but recently moved to Hetzner because the price for their AX50 Ryzen 1700X + 32GB of RAM is hard to beat.
TheArcane 9y ago
> I can develop literally anywhere Except on airplanes.
- Direct 9y ago
  Or underground trains, or long tunnels, or hikes, or many things. Hopefully though the typical developer doesn't spend the majority of his time on an airplane. Me personally, I don't need to be coding so consistently that the loss of a few hours on a plane is going to stop me doing this.

dang 9y ago

OK we've used your suggestion. Thanks!

TheArcane 9y ago

I think someone edited the title of my submission. I wasn't sure that was possible.