4 ms·

HN cracks me up sometimes. Compare the derision and skepticism hurled at would-be video game developers to the praise people working countless hours on pointles

by sidlls 9y ago

HN cracks me up sometimes. Compare the derision and skepticism hurled at would-be video game developers to the praise people working countless hours on pointless "portfolio side projects" on github or whatever get, just for a minor boost in the grueling interview process or because they're so passionate about it or whatever. At least these people (who are certainly being exploited, often in ways that violate labor laws) are getting some real work experience while they're at it.

nothrabannosir 9y ago
> Compare the derision and skepticism hurled at would-be video game developers to the praise people working countless hours on pointless "portfolio side projects" on github or whatever get Ok: one is fun, ~100h spread out over any period you want (e.g. a year: 2h per weekend), completely 100% beholden only to yourself, no strings attached. The other... well, I’ve never worked there, but I’ll quote someone who seems to know: “certainly being exploited, often in ways that violate labor laws.” Are you honestly comparing what people are describing here to side projects? honestly: what side project have you ever worked on that treated you that way?
- sidlls 9y ago
  The amusement is from the comparison to the use of side projects as a proxy/signal for "passion" as part of the job application process and resume support, not side projects in general. Of course more generally the exploitation of open source work by commercial entities is also ignored in this context, which is also amusing. The number of side-projects that are used for free by commercial entities profiting off them dwarfs the number used to generate income by consulting or as a business. But that's just fine because "open source."
mightybyte 9y ago
You do have a point that they're getting real work experience. But that's where the similarities end. I've never heard stories about health problems, stress, and burnout from side projects. I'm sure it probably happens to some people, but it's almost certainly nowhere near the same rate that it sounds like it happens in the game industry.
always_good 9y ago
Well, one's a demanding job, the other is some Saturday fun working on a project of your choice until you lose interest.
geezerjay 9y ago
Perhaps that wouldn't be amusing to you once you realize that HN isn't a hive mind and there is a broad spectrum of what people think, believe or aspire to. For example, those who are unemployed or seeking to improve their job prospects or wanting to work on specific skillets may invest their time in "portfolio side projects", but those who are employed and feel overworked may complain about the Stockholm syndrome aspect of some software sweatshops.
mosselman 9y ago
If you just do side projects because you think it will help your portfolio you shouldn't work on side projects. I work on my side projects because I find it fun to do, the experience I get from that, like any experience, helps me in my day to day job. I am fine with you cracking up over 'normal programmers' like me vs would-be video game developers I get in at 8:45 and leave at 17:10, I go swimming with my baby daughter once a week from 9:00 to 10:00 and I work from home 2 days a week without a single minute in overtime. If you are out there doing 80-100 hour workweeks (as described in the article) you are an idiot. I get it when there are no jobs in your industry and too many candidates (psychology here in the Netherlands), but if you can program for games you can program applications with minimal self-training and start working normal hours and working on your life. So if you can program and you choose to work like described in the article you are an idiot.
azr79 9y ago
Nobody gets health problems from working on side projects, that's a non argument.
- maccard 9y ago
  Plenty of people get burnt out from side projects that turn out to be bigger than they had the capacity for.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    And if it gets too much, they can stop without loss of employment.
nikdaheratik 9y ago
It's not the people that work in the industry that I'm annoyed with, it's the people running the game dev cos. And to a lesser extent the "startups" that are also poorly ran and exploitative. It's this same late stage capitalism BS where some people are successful doing X, where X also involved working obscene hours, not planning things out the way they would have to in a large company, and doing other things that are either "trailblazing" or "cutting corners" depending on your perspective. And they get lucky and make a ton of cash. And so a ton of other people try and follow this path, but the only lessosn they seemed to learn was "working long hours is awesome" and "you don't need to pay people fair wages, just let passion (and/or stock options) motivate them". And people who would have made a decent living 20 years ago doing something boring are conned into it because it seems like the only path left for them.

by sidlls 9y ago

nothrabannosir 9y ago

> Compare the derision and skepticism hurled at would-be video game developers to the praise people working countless hours on pointless "portfolio side projects" on github or whatever get Ok: one is fun, ~100h spread out over any period you want (e.g. a year: 2h per weekend), completely 100% beholden only to yourself, no strings attached. The other... well, I’ve never worked there, but I’ll quote someone who seems to know: “certainly being exploited, often in ways that violate labor laws.” Are you honestly comparing what people are describing here to side projects? honestly: what side project have you ever worked on that treated you that way?

sidlls 9y ago
The amusement is from the comparison to the use of side projects as a proxy/signal for "passion" as part of the job application process and resume support, not side projects in general. Of course more generally the exploitation of open source work by commercial entities is also ignored in this context, which is also amusing. The number of side-projects that are used for free by commercial entities profiting off them dwarfs the number used to generate income by consulting or as a business. But that's just fine because "open source."

mightybyte 9y ago

You do have a point that they're getting real work experience. But that's where the similarities end. I've never heard stories about health problems, stress, and burnout from side projects. I'm sure it probably happens to some people, but it's almost certainly nowhere near the same rate that it sounds like it happens in the game industry.

always_good 9y ago

Well, one's a demanding job, the other is some Saturday fun working on a project of your choice until you lose interest.

geezerjay 9y ago

Perhaps that wouldn't be amusing to you once you realize that HN isn't a hive mind and there is a broad spectrum of what people think, believe or aspire to. For example, those who are unemployed or seeking to improve their job prospects or wanting to work on specific skillets may invest their time in "portfolio side projects", but those who are employed and feel overworked may complain about the Stockholm syndrome aspect of some software sweatshops.

mosselman 9y ago

If you just do side projects because you think it will help your portfolio you shouldn't work on side projects. I work on my side projects because I find it fun to do, the experience I get from that, like any experience, helps me in my day to day job. I am fine with you cracking up over 'normal programmers' like me vs would-be video game developers I get in at 8:45 and leave at 17:10, I go swimming with my baby daughter once a week from 9:00 to 10:00 and I work from home 2 days a week without a single minute in overtime. If you are out there doing 80-100 hour workweeks (as described in the article) you are an idiot. I get it when there are no jobs in your industry and too many candidates (psychology here in the Netherlands), but if you can program for games you can program applications with minimal self-training and start working normal hours and working on your life. So if you can program and you choose to work like described in the article you are an idiot.

azr79 9y ago

Nobody gets health problems from working on side projects, that's a non argument.

maccard 9y ago
Plenty of people get burnt out from side projects that turn out to be bigger than they had the capacity for.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  And if it gets too much, they can stop without loss of employment.

nikdaheratik 9y ago

It's not the people that work in the industry that I'm annoyed with, it's the people running the game dev cos. And to a lesser extent the "startups" that are also poorly ran and exploitative. It's this same late stage capitalism BS where some people are successful doing X, where X also involved working obscene hours, not planning things out the way they would have to in a large company, and doing other things that are either "trailblazing" or "cutting corners" depending on your perspective. And they get lucky and make a ton of cash. And so a ton of other people try and follow this path, but the only lessosn they seemed to learn was "working long hours is awesome" and "you don't need to pay people fair wages, just let passion (and/or stock options) motivate them". And people who would have made a decent living 20 years ago doing something boring are conned into it because it seems like the only path left for them.