5 ms·

That's fine, I'm happy to hire someone who is dedicated, passionate, and loves coding enough to to a quick assignment. Its not free work, its a demonstration of

That's fine, I'm happy to hire someone who is dedicated, passionate, and loves coding enough to to a quick assignment. Its not free work, its a demonstration of skill. In fact, we just hired someone who did that, and her assignment came back better than expected. At first we were so-so on her due to potential lack of experience, but the assignment (and her projects on her personal site) showed us were wrong.

megy 9y ago
So you are admitting you are bad about making decisions about people? Luckily you have something empirical because you are no good at judging someone. Thanks for admitting that, the first step is accepting you are no good at evaluating people. Ha, but seriously, I hate take home assignments.
- careersuicide 9y ago
  > So you are admitting you are bad about making decisions about people? Luckily you have something empirical because you are no good at judging someone. This is almost entirely the point of take home assignments. In fact, this is almost word for word what my response would be to anyone who doesn't like take home assignments! > Thanks for admitting that, the first step is accepting you are no good at evaluating people. Step two is admitting that, in general, evaluating people using non-empirical means is an enterprise fraught with peril.
literallycancer 9y ago
>Its not free work, its a demonstration of skill. Was it paid? If not, then it's free work. Call it whatever you want, in my experience the people talking about passion the most are those that are just looking to pay the least they possibly can.
- defined 9y ago
  Why not call it an audition? Until we have established a name (track record) for ourselves, and/or have a number of respected people vouch for us, we are called on to demonstrate our skills, just as musicians and actors are. In principle, I think this is reasonable, especially since there are reportedly many fakers and exaggerators applying for jobs. In practice, it appears that there are so many shoddy auditions that we must endure when looking for a job, that it becomes almost a full-time waste of time. This is unreasonable, methinks. The problem will become serious when nearly every company that is hiring runs a low-quality dog and pony show in which we must perform, or not be hired. We can already see an analogous issue in the ubiquitous presence of objectionable binding mandatory arbitration clauses in seemingly every contract we sign nowadays.
- nanodano 9y ago
  If you were hiring a musician, and you asked them to perform an audition. Would you accept the response, "Sorry, I don't work for free." "Well do you have any recordings you can show me instead?" "No, I do other things with my free time. I don't work outside of work."
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Auditions don't usually take several hours, do they?
    - wyclif 9y ago
      That's another reason the "audition"/side project analogy doesn't work. I'm a musician. When you audition for a band, it's a matter of walking in, plugging in or setting up, and playing a few songs with the band. If the musician is any good compared to the people they've already auditioned, many times you won't play another song. The band will hire you on the spot.
ryandrake 9y ago
When you hire someone to fix your roof, do you make them build you a doghouse first to prove they know carpentry?
- mdpopescu 9y ago
  If I hire them to fix my roof and they leave a huge hole in it, I am expected to sue them and wait for a few years to recoup my losses (while having a huge hole in the roof). I think I prefer the coding test.
- nanodano 9y ago
  If I owned a carpentry company, and I was trying to hire a carpenter, yes, I would ask them to build me something. Maybe not a dog house, but a bird house. You don't think that would be reasonable? "If you want us to hire you as a carpenter, prove to us you can build a bird house first." That seems totally reasonable to me.

megy 9y ago

So you are admitting you are bad about making decisions about people? Luckily you have something empirical because you are no good at judging someone. Thanks for admitting that, the first step is accepting you are no good at evaluating people. Ha, but seriously, I hate take home assignments.

careersuicide 9y ago
> So you are admitting you are bad about making decisions about people? Luckily you have something empirical because you are no good at judging someone. This is almost entirely the point of take home assignments. In fact, this is almost word for word what my response would be to anyone who doesn't like take home assignments! > Thanks for admitting that, the first step is accepting you are no good at evaluating people. Step two is admitting that, in general, evaluating people using non-empirical means is an enterprise fraught with peril.

literallycancer 9y ago

>Its not free work, its a demonstration of skill. Was it paid? If not, then it's free work. Call it whatever you want, in my experience the people talking about passion the most are those that are just looking to pay the least they possibly can.

defined 9y ago
Why not call it an audition? Until we have established a name (track record) for ourselves, and/or have a number of respected people vouch for us, we are called on to demonstrate our skills, just as musicians and actors are. In principle, I think this is reasonable, especially since there are reportedly many fakers and exaggerators applying for jobs. In practice, it appears that there are so many shoddy auditions that we must endure when looking for a job, that it becomes almost a full-time waste of time. This is unreasonable, methinks. The problem will become serious when nearly every company that is hiring runs a low-quality dog and pony show in which we must perform, or not be hired. We can already see an analogous issue in the ubiquitous presence of objectionable binding mandatory arbitration clauses in seemingly every contract we sign nowadays.
nanodano 9y ago
If you were hiring a musician, and you asked them to perform an audition. Would you accept the response, "Sorry, I don't work for free." "Well do you have any recordings you can show me instead?" "No, I do other things with my free time. I don't work outside of work."
- icebraining 9y ago
  Auditions don't usually take several hours, do they?
  - wyclif 9y ago
    That's another reason the "audition"/side project analogy doesn't work. I'm a musician. When you audition for a band, it's a matter of walking in, plugging in or setting up, and playing a few songs with the band. If the musician is any good compared to the people they've already auditioned, many times you won't play another song. The band will hire you on the spot.

ryandrake 9y ago

When you hire someone to fix your roof, do you make them build you a doghouse first to prove they know carpentry?

mdpopescu 9y ago
If I hire them to fix my roof and they leave a huge hole in it, I am expected to sue them and wait for a few years to recoup my losses (while having a huge hole in the roof). I think I prefer the coding test.
nanodano 9y ago
If I owned a carpentry company, and I was trying to hire a carpenter, yes, I would ask them to build me something. Maybe not a dog house, but a bird house. You don't think that would be reasonable? "If you want us to hire you as a carpenter, prove to us you can build a bird house first." That seems totally reasonable to me.