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I feel the same whenever I have this discussion. The "Look man, I have a life and I don't want to do extra unpaid work just to get a job" attitude is misunderst

I feel the same whenever I have this discussion. The "Look man, I have a life and I don't want to do extra unpaid work just to get a job" attitude is misunderstanding the motivations (to be fair, there are some situations where they are not). I look at what people do outside of work that isn't writing code. Having something means you are probably healthier, less likely to be burned out and more likely to have experiences that let you better understand what solves real customer/client/user problems. I don't want to hire someone who only writes code, they aren't as good at solving problems. Now I have to know if you can actually code. The best way to do that is to look at some code you've written. That's basically the extent of it. I'll do some extra work to come up with a take home project if I have to but if there is a great candidate already, and they have a github with good code in it ... I have to manage my time and I'm often chasing them when hiring, not the other way around. Open sourced code on Github is just the most common way to do that, and it does get bonus points for having examples of dealing with actual users in issues and involves giving back to the open source community that you almost certainly take from. But honestly, I really just want to see some actual working useful code you wrote.

maxhallinan 9y ago
> Having something means you are probably healthier, less likely to be burned out and more likely to have experiences that let you better understand what solves real customer/client/user problems. I didn't learn to write code until my late twenties. I have a fine arts degree. My early and mid twenties were focused on activities unrelated to technology. I have a reasonably large amount of life experience unrelated to programming. I haven't found that this experience gives me an edge in solving problems in my job as a programmer. Can you provide concrete examples that demonstrate this idea that people who code less outside of work are more effective problem solvers? I've seen this truism floating around quite a bit lately but have yet to see it demonstrated.
- gxs 9y ago
  The reason you have a hard time with it is because often the skills acquired through disciplines in the arts are less tangible then something technical. If nothing else, you might be more interesting to work with, have a clearer communication style, better taste in evaluating what "looks good", etc. etc. These aren't a substitute for skill, but past a certain skill threshold other things start play more significant roles. Edit: I really don't understand this pattern of down voting comments without offering a rebuttal of any kind. What exactly about this comment was against HN guidelines? Last time I checked, disagreeing with a comment wasn't grounds for down voting.
- freshhawk 9y ago
  Not that you code less outside of work, but that you do other things and meet other (non-programmer) people. As to how that helps: it doesn't help you solve implementation problems, it helps in designing the software to do what the client wants in a way they will like. It is hard to put yourself in the shoes of a different person to design something for them if you only hang out with people like you and only use software built for people like you. As a concrete example: what would a piece of software for artists be like if your only-engineering coworkers designed it vs. you having some input? By the way, it would definitely be either a portfolio hosting service or some kind of art database software. What problem do artists have that could use some software help that they aren't even aware exists?

maxhallinan 9y ago

> Having something means you are probably healthier, less likely to be burned out and more likely to have experiences that let you better understand what solves real customer/client/user problems. I didn't learn to write code until my late twenties. I have a fine arts degree. My early and mid twenties were focused on activities unrelated to technology. I have a reasonably large amount of life experience unrelated to programming. I haven't found that this experience gives me an edge in solving problems in my job as a programmer. Can you provide concrete examples that demonstrate this idea that people who code less outside of work are more effective problem solvers? I've seen this truism floating around quite a bit lately but have yet to see it demonstrated.

gxs 9y ago
The reason you have a hard time with it is because often the skills acquired through disciplines in the arts are less tangible then something technical. If nothing else, you might be more interesting to work with, have a clearer communication style, better taste in evaluating what "looks good", etc. etc. These aren't a substitute for skill, but past a certain skill threshold other things start play more significant roles. Edit: I really don't understand this pattern of down voting comments without offering a rebuttal of any kind. What exactly about this comment was against HN guidelines? Last time I checked, disagreeing with a comment wasn't grounds for down voting.
freshhawk 9y ago
Not that you code less outside of work, but that you do other things and meet other (non-programmer) people. As to how that helps: it doesn't help you solve implementation problems, it helps in designing the software to do what the client wants in a way they will like. It is hard to put yourself in the shoes of a different person to design something for them if you only hang out with people like you and only use software built for people like you. As a concrete example: what would a piece of software for artists be like if your only-engineering coworkers designed it vs. you having some input? By the way, it would definitely be either a portfolio hosting service or some kind of art database software. What problem do artists have that could use some software help that they aren't even aware exists?