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You get some rich people from somewhere else who move in and throw all local culture and tradition away. It's happening in Colorado. Every Fourteener (14,000+

You get some rich people from somewhere else who move in and throw all local culture and tradition away. It's happening in Colorado. Every Fourteener (14,000+ foot mountains) used to be publicly accessible but we got some greedy folks who moved in and shut down that traditional access to at least five of them so far. If I ever come into a sizable fortune my plan is to acquire these lands and turn them over to the public. I would be happy to legally harass these folks into selling as well, if that's what it took. Maybe buy up the land surrounding theirs and cut off public access.

sliverstorm 9y ago
I share your dream plan, but with the public lands transfer movement fear the Fed would one day soon turn around and sell the bequeathment for a song. It might not happen today or this decade, but public lands are not immutable. So then I wonder if the best option is to set up some kind of management trust.
- wavefunction 9y ago
  You're probably right considering that clown Zinke, who wasn't even born in Montana and doesn't appear to appreciate the real sentiments of many in the American West.
- typeformer 9y ago
  The research is clear that Community Land Trust work, for both land management and for affordable housing. We need more CLT's and Co-ops all over this country.
tiggybear 9y ago
Just find the pharmaceuticals these greedy assholes are dependent on to stay alive, buy up the manufacturing rights, shut down production, and get rid of some of the world's problems. Could probably could get a kickstarter going, I'd donate.
borkt 9y ago
I really have no expertise in this area but with the amount of lawsuits that occur these days it feels like as soon as someone was paralyzed or killed accessing this land you would be on the hook for not preventing them from accessing it. I would hope that this isn't the case but it just feels like the way thinks are going.
- jjoonathan 9y ago
  "They'll sue us if we're not assholes" is a common rationalization/excuse from assholes. Every time I've done a deep dive on one of these (only a few times, not a lawyer) I've found them to be a complete fabrication and on one occasion the actual inverse of the truth, in that the activity being rationalized was in fact illegal. I'm sure there are plenty of cases where the claim is legitimate, but there are more than plenty where it's not.
njarboe 9y ago
That is a shame. I think Culebra Peak has always been private access. At least it when I was bagging them back in the 1990's. What are the other four that are problematic now?
- justinator 9y ago
  Like to know too - considering I visited them all just this past summer.
heiuwei8 9y ago
"You get some rich people from somewhere else who move in and throw all local culture and tradition away." In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue.
- wavefunction 9y ago
  There are many historical examples of cultures murdering and taking over areas from the traditional inhabitants. Even the current Native Americans apparently killed off/supplanted earlier peoples. Anyways, the tradition of access to the open range extends back to the indigenous Americans who didn't necessarily possess the concept of owning land or fencing it, so I think that weakens that argument.
justinator 9y ago
It's happening in Colorado. Every Fourteener (14,000+ foot mountains) used to be publicly accessible but we got some greedy folks who moved in and shut down that traditional access to at least five of them so far. Which ones? I just did all the 14ers this year, and didn't have problems with access to any. (Culebra was one I paid for a reservation)
- wavefunction 9y ago
  Culebra has always been the problematic one but I guess I am quite behind the times after I've checked the current situation. Culebra is only open one week a year from when I checked last year. Lincoln, Bross, Democrat and Cameron had their access blocked in 2005 by people who acquired land via old mining claims. It appears a happy impasse has since been reached with the town of Alma leasing the land and taking on the risk of litigation, which is limited by the town's governmental immunity. So it was only a temporary blocking, but I guess I'm still unhappy it occurred at all.
  - justinator 9y ago
    > Culebra is only open one week a year from when I checked last year In 2017, it was open for dates in June and July you could reserve in June and July. Normally, it's also opened in August, but they've closed it for wildlife reasons. But this is a different situation than what the fine article is about - Culebra Peak isn't public land blocked by private land; it's just private land itself. It's been private land before the National Forest and the Dept. of the Interior were a thing. Access to Mt. Democrat/etc has been open since 2012. Only Bross remains closed. The closure in total is a sign saying, "summit closed". Again, different from the article where private land is blocking public access. Many other 14ers are actually on private land, but access is not limited. Lindsey is one example - it resides almost completely in the Trinchera Ranch, which was just sold. But there is a conservation easement to Colorado Open Lands as part of the sale of the ranch - you can't develop on the land, and access to the summit is allowed from the Huerfano Valley. Mt. Shavano's summit is also on private land as well, but the mining claim was bought recently by the CFI, and will be transferred to the NF soon. http://www.14ers.org/mount-shavano-private-lands-acquisition/ http://www.14ers.org/mount-shavano-private-lands-acquisition... From my experiences, easy access of public land is actually really good in Colorado. I'm sure there are issues, but they seem at least to me minimal in most of the popular areas, like 14ers.
blackguardx 9y ago
Have you heard of the Access Fund? They help work out access issues for climbers. They mainly deal with rock climbing issues but might do other stuff as well. They have been successful negotiating with property owners in the past. They sometimes even buy land to ensure access forever. I live in CO and climb but don't do much mountaineering. Is anyone working on this issue? I'm shocked this has happened because climbing 14ers is one of the most authentically Coloradan things one can do.

sliverstorm 9y ago

I share your dream plan, but with the public lands transfer movement fear the Fed would one day soon turn around and sell the bequeathment for a song. It might not happen today or this decade, but public lands are not immutable. So then I wonder if the best option is to set up some kind of management trust.

wavefunction 9y ago
You're probably right considering that clown Zinke, who wasn't even born in Montana and doesn't appear to appreciate the real sentiments of many in the American West.
typeformer 9y ago
The research is clear that Community Land Trust work, for both land management and for affordable housing. We need more CLT's and Co-ops all over this country.

tiggybear 9y ago

Just find the pharmaceuticals these greedy assholes are dependent on to stay alive, buy up the manufacturing rights, shut down production, and get rid of some of the world's problems. Could probably could get a kickstarter going, I'd donate.

borkt 9y ago

I really have no expertise in this area but with the amount of lawsuits that occur these days it feels like as soon as someone was paralyzed or killed accessing this land you would be on the hook for not preventing them from accessing it. I would hope that this isn't the case but it just feels like the way thinks are going.

jjoonathan 9y ago
"They'll sue us if we're not assholes" is a common rationalization/excuse from assholes. Every time I've done a deep dive on one of these (only a few times, not a lawyer) I've found them to be a complete fabrication and on one occasion the actual inverse of the truth, in that the activity being rationalized was in fact illegal. I'm sure there are plenty of cases where the claim is legitimate, but there are more than plenty where it's not.

njarboe 9y ago

That is a shame. I think Culebra Peak has always been private access. At least it when I was bagging them back in the 1990's. What are the other four that are problematic now?

justinator 9y ago
Like to know too - considering I visited them all just this past summer.

heiuwei8 9y ago

"You get some rich people from somewhere else who move in and throw all local culture and tradition away." In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

wavefunction 9y ago
There are many historical examples of cultures murdering and taking over areas from the traditional inhabitants. Even the current Native Americans apparently killed off/supplanted earlier peoples. Anyways, the tradition of access to the open range extends back to the indigenous Americans who didn't necessarily possess the concept of owning land or fencing it, so I think that weakens that argument.

justinator 9y ago

It's happening in Colorado. Every Fourteener (14,000+ foot mountains) used to be publicly accessible but we got some greedy folks who moved in and shut down that traditional access to at least five of them so far. Which ones? I just did all the 14ers this year, and didn't have problems with access to any. (Culebra was one I paid for a reservation)

wavefunction 9y ago
Culebra has always been the problematic one but I guess I am quite behind the times after I've checked the current situation. Culebra is only open one week a year from when I checked last year. Lincoln, Bross, Democrat and Cameron had their access blocked in 2005 by people who acquired land via old mining claims. It appears a happy impasse has since been reached with the town of Alma leasing the land and taking on the risk of litigation, which is limited by the town's governmental immunity. So it was only a temporary blocking, but I guess I'm still unhappy it occurred at all.
- justinator 9y ago
  > Culebra is only open one week a year from when I checked last year In 2017, it was open for dates in June and July you could reserve in June and July. Normally, it's also opened in August, but they've closed it for wildlife reasons. But this is a different situation than what the fine article is about - Culebra Peak isn't public land blocked by private land; it's just private land itself. It's been private land before the National Forest and the Dept. of the Interior were a thing. Access to Mt. Democrat/etc has been open since 2012. Only Bross remains closed. The closure in total is a sign saying, "summit closed". Again, different from the article where private land is blocking public access. Many other 14ers are actually on private land, but access is not limited. Lindsey is one example - it resides almost completely in the Trinchera Ranch, which was just sold. But there is a conservation easement to Colorado Open Lands as part of the sale of the ranch - you can't develop on the land, and access to the summit is allowed from the Huerfano Valley. Mt. Shavano's summit is also on private land as well, but the mining claim was bought recently by the CFI, and will be transferred to the NF soon. http://www.14ers.org/mount-shavano-private-lands-acquisition/ http://www.14ers.org/mount-shavano-private-lands-acquisition... From my experiences, easy access of public land is actually really good in Colorado. I'm sure there are issues, but they seem at least to me minimal in most of the popular areas, like 14ers.

blackguardx 9y ago

Have you heard of the Access Fund? They help work out access issues for climbers. They mainly deal with rock climbing issues but might do other stuff as well. They have been successful negotiating with property owners in the past. They sometimes even buy land to ensure access forever. I live in CO and climb but don't do much mountaineering. Is anyone working on this issue? I'm shocked this has happened because climbing 14ers is one of the most authentically Coloradan things one can do.