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> I don’t have employees, I don’t cut checks for investment. None of the women who came forward were ever in a position where I could make or break their caree

> I don’t have employees, I don’t cut checks for investment. None of the women who came forward were ever in a position where I could make or break their careers. Sexual Harassment requires that I have such power. This is an incredibly disgusting and miss-guided view of sexual harassment.

blattimwind 9y ago
This paragraph clearly relates the allegations against him to those against Weinstein et al, who used their power of "making or breaking careers" to coerce women. If you do not possess such a power, as he argues, you cannot possibly commit this kind of sexual harassment.
- deleted 9y ago
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- TarpitCarnivore 9y ago
  And that some how makes his statement better? Sexual harassment is sexual harassment.
Anderkent 9y ago
Eh. I think everyone agrees power imbalance is a crucial part of capital letters Sexual Harassment. We know people can be assholes to each other at any point, but we pay particular attention to people in positions of power over others. Setting aside power imbalances of physical nature (i.e. alone in an elevator), I think he's mostly accurate? Unwelcome advances in a situation where there is little possibility of harm to the woman should she reject you are just unwelcome advances. Maybe creepy, maybe rude, maybe disgusting. But they're not abuse, and they're not sexual harassment. I think that's clearly the goalpost he's comparing his behaviour to.
- DanBC 9y ago
  > I think everyone agrees power imbalance is a crucial part of capital letters Sexual Harassment. No. here's the EU definition: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:1976L0207:20021005:EN:PDF http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLE... > harassment: where an unwanted conduct related to the sex of a person occurs with the purpose or effect of violating the dignity of a person, and of creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment, > sexual harassment: where any form of unwanted verbal, non-verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature occurs, with the purpose or effect of violating the dignity of a person, in particular when creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment. Here's the English law: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/26 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/26 > 1)A person (A) harasses another (B) if— > (a)A engages in unwanted conduct related to a relevant protected characteristic, and > (b)the conduct has the purpose or effect of— > (i)violating B's dignity, or > (ii)creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for B. > (2)A also harasses B if— > (a)A engages in unwanted conduct of a sexual nature, and > (b)the conduct has the purpose or effect referred to in subsection (1)(b) There's nothing in there about power imbalance.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  From other posts in this thread I gather he's accused, among other things, of groping women without their consent, which, if true, goes a bit beyond making an "unwelcome advance," in my opinion. Whether it's true I don't claim to know, but responding to it by talking about how it technically does not constitute sexual harassment seems ill advised either way.
zaroth 9y ago
If you're hoping for substantive discussion it would be good if you could say more. Just like on HN the guidelines are to take the most charitable interpretation possible of what someone wrote when responding, I think it's best to apply the same process when critiquing TFA.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  I don't know how charitable we can be... this definition of sexual harassment seems plainly wrong. It colors the entire statement because it's a definition that excludes huge amounts of what most of us would understand to be sexual harassment.
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  Ok, since you say so: charitable it is. Once you get past all that sexual harassment stuff, there's some really exciting news in that article we're discussing, that I think most people have overlooked! What did you think of his new business and new career that Robert Scoble announced? Have you signed up for his mailing list yet? Are you looking forward to reading his sagely words of advice about how to best benefit from his experience? Is your company working on something that would benefit from Robert Scoble evangelizing and representing you to the press? Do you have any stories about hard-to-express passions for your product or customers that you need to announce to the world? Do you want to save money on lawyer fees by having Robert Scoble advise you about what to write in your press releases? http://lightpitch.launchrock.com/ http://lightpitch.launchrock.com/ LightPitch: Helping startups get attention I, Robert Scoble, have a passion for products, and have spent the last 20 years helping others tell the story of their products. Now you can benefit from my experience. Pitch Consulting and more: Entrepreneurs often have a passion for their product that they can’t express in the ways that resonate with investors. I will work with you to build a deck and narrative that resonates with investors as well as help you practice for the questions that routinely come up. In some cases I will also aid in introductions to potential investors and companies that would make good customers or partners. Pricing and availability coming soon. In the meantime, use the contact form below to find out how I can help in your success.
joshuaheard 9y ago
Not really. I'm not an expert on Sexual Harassment law, but it is my understanding there are 2 general kinds of sexual harassment. One is where there is such pervasive harassment of a sexual nature that it constitutes a "hostile work environment". For instance if firefighters put up centerfolds throughout the firehouse. This does not seem to be alleged here. The other is where a person in a superior position uses that position in order to gain sexual favors from a subordinate. This is like the Weinstein allegations where he demanded they shower with him or they would never work in Hollywood again. That seems to be the type of harassment he is defending against. After reading the article, I didn't find anything in there that fit either of these definitions.
- wellboy 9y ago
  That's new to me that it has to be in a work environment. What about parties, clubs, outdoors anywhere?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- TarpitCarnivore 9y ago
  > That seems to be what he is defending against. After reading the article, I didn't find anything in there that constituted sexual harassment. Yeah, because this is him trying to change the story and narrative. Go actually read the stories on his accusations and you'll see they are forms of sexual harassment.

blattimwind 9y ago

This paragraph clearly relates the allegations against him to those against Weinstein et al, who used their power of "making or breaking careers" to coerce women. If you do not possess such a power, as he argues, you cannot possibly commit this kind of sexual harassment.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
TarpitCarnivore 9y ago
And that some how makes his statement better? Sexual harassment is sexual harassment.

Anderkent 9y ago

Eh. I think everyone agrees power imbalance is a crucial part of capital letters Sexual Harassment. We know people can be assholes to each other at any point, but we pay particular attention to people in positions of power over others. Setting aside power imbalances of physical nature (i.e. alone in an elevator), I think he's mostly accurate? Unwelcome advances in a situation where there is little possibility of harm to the woman should she reject you are just unwelcome advances. Maybe creepy, maybe rude, maybe disgusting. But they're not abuse, and they're not sexual harassment. I think that's clearly the goalpost he's comparing his behaviour to.

DanBC 9y ago
> I think everyone agrees power imbalance is a crucial part of capital letters Sexual Harassment. No. here's the EU definition: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:1976L0207:20021005:EN:PDF http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLE... > harassment: where an unwanted conduct related to the sex of a person occurs with the purpose or effect of violating the dignity of a person, and of creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment, > sexual harassment: where any form of unwanted verbal, non-verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature occurs, with the purpose or effect of violating the dignity of a person, in particular when creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment. Here's the English law: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/26 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/26 > 1)A person (A) harasses another (B) if— > (a)A engages in unwanted conduct related to a relevant protected characteristic, and > (b)the conduct has the purpose or effect of— > (i)violating B's dignity, or > (ii)creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for B. > (2)A also harasses B if— > (a)A engages in unwanted conduct of a sexual nature, and > (b)the conduct has the purpose or effect referred to in subsection (1)(b) There's nothing in there about power imbalance.
emodendroket 9y ago
From other posts in this thread I gather he's accused, among other things, of groping women without their consent, which, if true, goes a bit beyond making an "unwelcome advance," in my opinion. Whether it's true I don't claim to know, but responding to it by talking about how it technically does not constitute sexual harassment seems ill advised either way.

zaroth 9y ago

If you're hoping for substantive discussion it would be good if you could say more. Just like on HN the guidelines are to take the most charitable interpretation possible of what someone wrote when responding, I think it's best to apply the same process when critiquing TFA.

emodendroket 9y ago
I don't know how charitable we can be... this definition of sexual harassment seems plainly wrong. It colors the entire statement because it's a definition that excludes huge amounts of what most of us would understand to be sexual harassment.
DonHopkins 9y ago
Ok, since you say so: charitable it is. Once you get past all that sexual harassment stuff, there's some really exciting news in that article we're discussing, that I think most people have overlooked! What did you think of his new business and new career that Robert Scoble announced? Have you signed up for his mailing list yet? Are you looking forward to reading his sagely words of advice about how to best benefit from his experience? Is your company working on something that would benefit from Robert Scoble evangelizing and representing you to the press? Do you have any stories about hard-to-express passions for your product or customers that you need to announce to the world? Do you want to save money on lawyer fees by having Robert Scoble advise you about what to write in your press releases? http://lightpitch.launchrock.com/ http://lightpitch.launchrock.com/ LightPitch: Helping startups get attention I, Robert Scoble, have a passion for products, and have spent the last 20 years helping others tell the story of their products. Now you can benefit from my experience. Pitch Consulting and more: Entrepreneurs often have a passion for their product that they can’t express in the ways that resonate with investors. I will work with you to build a deck and narrative that resonates with investors as well as help you practice for the questions that routinely come up. In some cases I will also aid in introductions to potential investors and companies that would make good customers or partners. Pricing and availability coming soon. In the meantime, use the contact form below to find out how I can help in your success.

joshuaheard 9y ago

Not really. I'm not an expert on Sexual Harassment law, but it is my understanding there are 2 general kinds of sexual harassment. One is where there is such pervasive harassment of a sexual nature that it constitutes a "hostile work environment". For instance if firefighters put up centerfolds throughout the firehouse. This does not seem to be alleged here. The other is where a person in a superior position uses that position in order to gain sexual favors from a subordinate. This is like the Weinstein allegations where he demanded they shower with him or they would never work in Hollywood again. That seems to be the type of harassment he is defending against. After reading the article, I didn't find anything in there that fit either of these definitions.

wellboy 9y ago
That's new to me that it has to be in a work environment. What about parties, clubs, outdoors anywhere?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
TarpitCarnivore 9y ago
> That seems to be what he is defending against. After reading the article, I didn't find anything in there that constituted sexual harassment. Yeah, because this is him trying to change the story and narrative. Go actually read the stories on his accusations and you'll see they are forms of sexual harassment.