4 ms·

Isn't this the same argument that was used against seat belt laws?

by WD-42 9y ago

dogruck 9y ago
Yes, and many other laws, including rolling through stop signs or failing to use your turn signal. It's not just an argument though -- it's a real struggle that impacts people (often minorities) daily.
olyjohn 9y ago
This is how just about every traffic law works. Take speeding as an example. Cop gets you with a speed measuring device like LIDAR or RADAR. He writes down the measured speed, clears out his device. How do you know that's what the gun actually registered? They totally have the power to make up a speed, pull you over and ticket you. Good luck in court. It almost always comes down to your word vs the officer's.
- module0000 9y ago
  I've fought one of these tickets, and it is very difficult as you say. I won, but in a way I consider sleazy. I plead non-guilty, and used an attorney(this is so, so, so important) who had the radar device brought into court. Once the device was present, the attorney entered a litany of requests: 1) Proof of the officers initial training with the device 2) Proof of the officers required continued training with the device 3) Proof of device's regular scheduled maintenance 4) Proof of training(initial and continued) of the person(s) who performed said maintenance They got as far as item #2, couldn't provide it, and folded. I paid my attorney roughly the same cost I would have paid the court. Any "savings" would be the increase in my insurance costs that never happened. If you can't afford an attorney, you are screwed. The "system" is about generating municipal income, not keeping anyone safe on the roads.
  - peatmoss 9y ago
    > The "system" is about generating municipal income, not keeping anyone safe on the roads. But presumably you were actually speeding?
AutomationTool 9y ago
No, the argument against seat belt laws is similar to the argument against helmet laws, "If I want to fling myself through the windshield, I should be able to."

Isn't this the same argument that was used against seat belt laws?

by WD-42 9y ago

Isn't this the same argument that was used against seat belt laws?

Yes, and many other laws, including rolling through stop signs or failing to use your turn signal. It's not just an argument though -- it's a real struggle that impacts people (often minorities) daily.

olyjohn 9y ago

This is how just about every traffic law works. Take speeding as an example. Cop gets you with a speed measuring device like LIDAR or RADAR. He writes down the measured speed, clears out his device. How do you know that's what the gun actually registered? They totally have the power to make up a speed, pull you over and ticket you. Good luck in court. It almost always comes down to your word vs the officer's.

module0000 9y ago
I've fought one of these tickets, and it is very difficult as you say. I won, but in a way I consider sleazy. I plead non-guilty, and used an attorney(this is so, so, so important) who had the radar device brought into court. Once the device was present, the attorney entered a litany of requests: 1) Proof of the officers initial training with the device 2) Proof of the officers required continued training with the device 3) Proof of device's regular scheduled maintenance 4) Proof of training(initial and continued) of the person(s) who performed said maintenance They got as far as item #2, couldn't provide it, and folded. I paid my attorney roughly the same cost I would have paid the court. Any "savings" would be the increase in my insurance costs that never happened. If you can't afford an attorney, you are screwed. The "system" is about generating municipal income, not keeping anyone safe on the roads.
- peatmoss 9y ago
  > The "system" is about generating municipal income, not keeping anyone safe on the roads. But presumably you were actually speeding?

AutomationTool 9y ago

No, the argument against seat belt laws is similar to the argument against helmet laws, "If I want to fling myself through the windshield, I should be able to."