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If you haven't been to a college campus in awhile you would be shocked at the recent gap between 'general' liberal beliefs (legalize pot, gay marriage, increase

If you haven't been to a college campus in awhile you would be shocked at the recent gap between 'general' liberal beliefs (legalize pot, gay marriage, increased welfare) and 'post-modern' liberal beliefs, which boil down to increasingly abstract accusations of structural racism/sexism/transism/other isms. That you don't recognize the phrase 'cissexual heteropatriarchy' seems to suggest this, because that's a term that many college administrations recognize, accept, and dole out punishments on, and even questioning that logic will put your education in jeopardy. Basically it's cultural extortion.

QAPereo 9y ago
How about some concrete examples of all of that? If it’s that common you should be able to reference them like crazy. Show me evidence of this growing pattern. Edit: downvote away, but show me the evidence.
- jimmywanger 9y ago
  The original argument has plenty of examples. Evergreen College wanted a "day of freedom" and forced a biology professor to resign. Just yesterday, a crazy SJW math professor said that math was inherently racist and cisgendered, and bemoaned that the social sciences didn't get as much funding as math. [1] Also, Berkeley and Stanford students complained so loudly and violently that Ben Shapiro and Ann Coulter did not speak (from the article) The search is trivial. [1] http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/23/professor-claims-math-algebra-and-geometry-promote-white-privilege/ http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/23/professor-claims-math-alge...
  - QAPereo 9y ago
    A pattern within something as vast as our higher education system, and that’s it? Followed by the classic deflection of all those without a leg stand on, “find it yourself” to boot? This site has such incredible ups, but the downs are equally staggering and disheartening.
    - imustbeevil 9y ago
      You realize that your posturing, followed by denial of the evidence given to you that doesn't fit the narrative you entered the thread with, is exactly the problem that people are talking about here? I have experienced this first hand in New Jersey, Boston, and Colorado. It seems to me that the only people who don't see a pattern are the people creating the pattern.
      - QAPereo 9y ago
        Asking for evidence commensurate to a claim is posturing? Edit: Claiming that you are right and someone else is wrong because they don't have evidence is posturing. Where did I claim to be right, rather than ask for evidence to support someone else's claim? You seem confused.
        imustbeevil 9y ago
        Claiming that you are right and someone else is wrong because they don't have evidence is posturing. It means the default in your mind is that you are correct and have to be proven false. There is a pattern because individuals across the country are seeing these things happen first hand. The people in this thread are evidence. Asking for links for every claim is the exact thing the GP was talking about. > You can't reason with postmodernists since they eschew science and evidence-based reason as tools of oppression. You are evidence that this is happening.
        QAPereo 9y ago
        > You can't reason with postmodernists since they eschew science and evidence-based reason as tools of oppression. You are evidence that this is happening. Even a cursory glance at my posting history would make a mockery of that claim. Drop the empty rhetoric, bring in the evidence.
        jimmywanger 9y ago
        > Even a cursory glance at my posting history would make a mockery of that claim. Drop the empty rhetoric, bring in the evidence. Hah! Just looking at your posting history _in this thread_ would lay waste to your statement. You said that people had to prove to you widely known facts. Fine. When people gave you evidence in terms of links, you dismissed the links and said in a huge educational system, how is this a pattern? That's a neat rhetorical trick by the way. If the evidence is too specific and easily substantiated, it doesn't indicate a pattern. A broadly based claim is dismissed as rumors and anecdote, and obviously not specific enough to be evidence. Head you win, tails I lose. Nice. I'm looking forward to seeing you respond to the other specifics that we brought up. Probably not evidence of a pattern eh? > This site has such incredible ups, but the downs are equally staggering and disheartening. You do know your comment is funny, and even funnier because you have no idea that we're all laughing at you?
- creaghpatr 9y ago
  Just follow New Real Peer Review https://twitter.com/RealPeerReview https://twitter.com/RealPeerReview You don't have to scroll to find headline: Feminist professor finds 'traditional science' is rooted in racism. But you should scroll so you can get a feel for the breadth and depth of this phenomenon. Those abstracts are a hell of a read, if you can wade through it.
- remarkEon 9y ago
  Just finished grad school at Big State University. Almost weekly both prior and after the election there were rallies and protests (some related to Trump, some not) where the demonstrators would wax on about “systemic white supremacy” and “cisheteropatriarchy”. White students would ceremoniously “acknowledge their privilege” by publicly declaring themselves an ally. They even had someone with an excel tracker to note who was declaring themselves an “ally” (probably collecting emails for future organizing, I would guess). At one of these things, a female student took the mic and talked about the pain she feels for being “white passing”, which I took to mean that people don’t see her as a minority but as White merely because of her skin color - a startling claim. Professors were starting to put “safe space” stickers on their office doors (I have pictures), and people were wearing safety pins after the election to signal that they are a “safe” person to interact with. This is absolutely a cult now, and an increasingly a mainstream one. It’s hard for me to gauge exactly how mainstream it was there but it was localized, it seems, to the undergrad institution.
  - forapurpose 9y ago
    The comment lists several ideas, but doesn't really what the problems are. It just presumes that the problems are self-evident. > "systemic white supremacy” and “cisheteropatriarchy” For example, the idea that there is systemic white supremacy in the U.S. is hard to challenge - the evidence is overwhelming - nor is the proposition that many white people are unaware of it (the 'privilege'). Cisheteropatriarchy means, based just on reading the word here, merely the obvious fact that politics is dominated by heterosexuals whose gender identities are 'near' the stereotypes (i.e., they are not transexual, etc.). It's hard to name anyone in power who doesn't fit that description. I'd love it if we could talk about the ideas, and had some curiosity about them, rather than just dismissing it all as a "cult". > safe spaces That doesn't sound objectionable on its face, and in a society with a lot of racism and sexism, it might be a good idea. I've talked to black people who say they very often feel vulnerable - they never know what someone might do, and if something happens the black person often will get the blame (and be fired, arrested, kicked out of the restaurant, etc.). The Weinstein Company could have used some safe spaces. What harm is it doing?
    - 9y ago
qntty 9y ago
you would be shocked at the recent gap between 'general' liberal beliefs (legalize pot, gay marriage, increased welfare) and 'post-modern' liberal beliefs I have, and I'm not, because this is basically a boogey-man. "Post-modern beliefs" are mostly pretty straight forward criticism that shouldn't be controversial to a thoughtful person. Edit: To be clear, I don't mean that their validity shouldn't be controversial, but that they are a normal part of the debating that is happening all the time in Universities and isn't some sort of intellectual disease. I might not be a libertarian, but I'm not appalled that anyone could believe in libertarianism.
- angersock 9y ago
  > "Post-modern beliefs" are mostly pretty straight forward criticism that shouldn't be controversial to a thoughtful person. Things like "race and gender are mere cultural constructs", as examples?
  - qntty 9y ago
    It's hard to deny that there is at least some part of our concepts of race and gender that aren't based in biology, but in social patterns. Are they entirely socially constructed? I don't think so.
bachmeier 9y ago
I come to campus five days a week, and have done so for many years, and I never encounter people talking about cissexual heteropatriarchy (never heard of it TBH). Humanities disciplines are about 10% of all professors, and of those, a minority spend their time talking about those things.
danielam 9y ago
Academic ideas often precede cultural and social changes. While the terms in question were previously unknown outside academia and restricted to the postmodern milieu, they are now terms I hear quite often among relatively recent university graduates, even in the software industry. It isn't surprising. After all, one way to influence social changes, good or bad, is by influencing students who then take what they've been taught with them into the broader world. On a related note, you might find Richard Rorty's essay "Universality and Truth" (found in "Rorty and His Critics") interesting. In it, he makes it clear that either you hold to liberal and secular views on the subjects at hand, or you're a “bigoted, homophobic, religious fundamentalist" and therefore ought to be ridiculed (and ought to have your children taught to see you in that light as well). Sadly, this extremist bifurcation of the world seems to be reflected in the unsophisticated politics of our times.
peatmoss 9y ago
What a difference a decade or two makes, isn't it? I started my undergrad in the late nineties at a state university known primarily for liberal arts. The expectation as a liberal / progressive student was that you wrestled with hard, distasteful, nuanced topics. Now, if you teach undergraduate students, you need to weigh whether or not it's worth fending off complaints for not issuing trigger warnings. I have friends who used to teach undergraduate classes, who now avoid doing so because of the aggressive fragility manifested by (some) students. As an avowed progressive, I find this trend really distasteful.

QAPereo 9y ago

How about some concrete examples of all of that? If it’s that common you should be able to reference them like crazy. Show me evidence of this growing pattern. Edit: downvote away, but show me the evidence.

jimmywanger 9y ago
The original argument has plenty of examples. Evergreen College wanted a "day of freedom" and forced a biology professor to resign. Just yesterday, a crazy SJW math professor said that math was inherently racist and cisgendered, and bemoaned that the social sciences didn't get as much funding as math. [1] Also, Berkeley and Stanford students complained so loudly and violently that Ben Shapiro and Ann Coulter did not speak (from the article) The search is trivial. [1] http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/23/professor-claims-math-algebra-and-geometry-promote-white-privilege/ http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/23/professor-claims-math-alge...
- QAPereo 9y ago
  A pattern within something as vast as our higher education system, and that’s it? Followed by the classic deflection of all those without a leg stand on, “find it yourself” to boot? This site has such incredible ups, but the downs are equally staggering and disheartening.
  - imustbeevil 9y ago
    You realize that your posturing, followed by denial of the evidence given to you that doesn't fit the narrative you entered the thread with, is exactly the problem that people are talking about here? I have experienced this first hand in New Jersey, Boston, and Colorado. It seems to me that the only people who don't see a pattern are the people creating the pattern.
    - QAPereo 9y ago
      Asking for evidence commensurate to a claim is posturing? Edit: Claiming that you are right and someone else is wrong because they don't have evidence is posturing. Where did I claim to be right, rather than ask for evidence to support someone else's claim? You seem confused.
      - imustbeevil 9y ago
        Claiming that you are right and someone else is wrong because they don't have evidence is posturing. It means the default in your mind is that you are correct and have to be proven false. There is a pattern because individuals across the country are seeing these things happen first hand. The people in this thread are evidence. Asking for links for every claim is the exact thing the GP was talking about. > You can't reason with postmodernists since they eschew science and evidence-based reason as tools of oppression. You are evidence that this is happening.
        QAPereo 9y ago
        > You can't reason with postmodernists since they eschew science and evidence-based reason as tools of oppression. You are evidence that this is happening. Even a cursory glance at my posting history would make a mockery of that claim. Drop the empty rhetoric, bring in the evidence.
        jimmywanger 9y ago
        > Even a cursory glance at my posting history would make a mockery of that claim. Drop the empty rhetoric, bring in the evidence. Hah! Just looking at your posting history _in this thread_ would lay waste to your statement. You said that people had to prove to you widely known facts. Fine. When people gave you evidence in terms of links, you dismissed the links and said in a huge educational system, how is this a pattern? That's a neat rhetorical trick by the way. If the evidence is too specific and easily substantiated, it doesn't indicate a pattern. A broadly based claim is dismissed as rumors and anecdote, and obviously not specific enough to be evidence. Head you win, tails I lose. Nice. I'm looking forward to seeing you respond to the other specifics that we brought up. Probably not evidence of a pattern eh? > This site has such incredible ups, but the downs are equally staggering and disheartening. You do know your comment is funny, and even funnier because you have no idea that we're all laughing at you?
creaghpatr 9y ago
Just follow New Real Peer Review https://twitter.com/RealPeerReview https://twitter.com/RealPeerReview You don't have to scroll to find headline: Feminist professor finds 'traditional science' is rooted in racism. But you should scroll so you can get a feel for the breadth and depth of this phenomenon. Those abstracts are a hell of a read, if you can wade through it.
remarkEon 9y ago
Just finished grad school at Big State University. Almost weekly both prior and after the election there were rallies and protests (some related to Trump, some not) where the demonstrators would wax on about “systemic white supremacy” and “cisheteropatriarchy”. White students would ceremoniously “acknowledge their privilege” by publicly declaring themselves an ally. They even had someone with an excel tracker to note who was declaring themselves an “ally” (probably collecting emails for future organizing, I would guess). At one of these things, a female student took the mic and talked about the pain she feels for being “white passing”, which I took to mean that people don’t see her as a minority but as White merely because of her skin color - a startling claim. Professors were starting to put “safe space” stickers on their office doors (I have pictures), and people were wearing safety pins after the election to signal that they are a “safe” person to interact with. This is absolutely a cult now, and an increasingly a mainstream one. It’s hard for me to gauge exactly how mainstream it was there but it was localized, it seems, to the undergrad institution.
- forapurpose 9y ago
  The comment lists several ideas, but doesn't really what the problems are. It just presumes that the problems are self-evident. > "systemic white supremacy” and “cisheteropatriarchy” For example, the idea that there is systemic white supremacy in the U.S. is hard to challenge - the evidence is overwhelming - nor is the proposition that many white people are unaware of it (the 'privilege'). Cisheteropatriarchy means, based just on reading the word here, merely the obvious fact that politics is dominated by heterosexuals whose gender identities are 'near' the stereotypes (i.e., they are not transexual, etc.). It's hard to name anyone in power who doesn't fit that description. I'd love it if we could talk about the ideas, and had some curiosity about them, rather than just dismissing it all as a "cult". > safe spaces That doesn't sound objectionable on its face, and in a society with a lot of racism and sexism, it might be a good idea. I've talked to black people who say they very often feel vulnerable - they never know what someone might do, and if something happens the black person often will get the blame (and be fired, arrested, kicked out of the restaurant, etc.). The Weinstein Company could have used some safe spaces. What harm is it doing?
  - 9y ago

qntty 9y ago

you would be shocked at the recent gap between 'general' liberal beliefs (legalize pot, gay marriage, increased welfare) and 'post-modern' liberal beliefs I have, and I'm not, because this is basically a boogey-man. "Post-modern beliefs" are mostly pretty straight forward criticism that shouldn't be controversial to a thoughtful person. Edit: To be clear, I don't mean that their validity shouldn't be controversial, but that they are a normal part of the debating that is happening all the time in Universities and isn't some sort of intellectual disease. I might not be a libertarian, but I'm not appalled that anyone could believe in libertarianism.

angersock 9y ago
> "Post-modern beliefs" are mostly pretty straight forward criticism that shouldn't be controversial to a thoughtful person. Things like "race and gender are mere cultural constructs", as examples?
- qntty 9y ago
  It's hard to deny that there is at least some part of our concepts of race and gender that aren't based in biology, but in social patterns. Are they entirely socially constructed? I don't think so.

bachmeier 9y ago

I come to campus five days a week, and have done so for many years, and I never encounter people talking about cissexual heteropatriarchy (never heard of it TBH). Humanities disciplines are about 10% of all professors, and of those, a minority spend their time talking about those things.

danielam 9y ago

Academic ideas often precede cultural and social changes. While the terms in question were previously unknown outside academia and restricted to the postmodern milieu, they are now terms I hear quite often among relatively recent university graduates, even in the software industry. It isn't surprising. After all, one way to influence social changes, good or bad, is by influencing students who then take what they've been taught with them into the broader world. On a related note, you might find Richard Rorty's essay "Universality and Truth" (found in "Rorty and His Critics") interesting. In it, he makes it clear that either you hold to liberal and secular views on the subjects at hand, or you're a “bigoted, homophobic, religious fundamentalist" and therefore ought to be ridiculed (and ought to have your children taught to see you in that light as well). Sadly, this extremist bifurcation of the world seems to be reflected in the unsophisticated politics of our times.

peatmoss 9y ago

What a difference a decade or two makes, isn't it? I started my undergrad in the late nineties at a state university known primarily for liberal arts. The expectation as a liberal / progressive student was that you wrestled with hard, distasteful, nuanced topics. Now, if you teach undergraduate students, you need to weigh whether or not it's worth fending off complaints for not issuing trigger warnings. I have friends who used to teach undergraduate classes, who now avoid doing so because of the aggressive fragility manifested by (some) students. As an avowed progressive, I find this trend really distasteful.