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I practiced Ben Franklin's 13 virtue system for 3 years
- gremlinsinc 9y agoI'm just curious if they practiced that 'chastity' one... cause 'no thanks' lol
- iak8god 9y ago"but for health" allows a lot. And "never to dullness, weakness, or to the injury of your own, or others' peace or reputation" is a pretty solid policy.
- jaymeh13 9y agoI never practiced this because I didn't feel it very helpful. I wish I had more insight into why Ben Franklin thought this was important.
- iak8god 9y ago> I wish I had more insight into why Ben Franklin thought this was important. Perhaps you would if you'd tried it :) But really, doesn't this point boil down to: don't act like a sex addict, and avoid stirring up a bunch of drama?
- emodendroket 9y agoThe standards for acceptable conduct in the 18th Century were quite different in this regard than they are today.
- iak8god 9y ago> The standards for acceptable conduct in the 18th Century were quite different in this regard than they are today. Well, they didn't have Tinder, but I'm not so sure things were as different as you may think. Here's a pretty amusing letter Franklin wrote that may provide some insight into his thinking on the topic: Benjamin Franklin, Advice to a Young Man on the Choice of a Mistress (1745) - http://www.themightypen.net/topic/16757-benjamin-franklin-advice-to-a-young-man-on-the-choice-of-a-mistress/ http://www.themightypen.net/topic/16757-benjamin-franklin-ad...
- emodendroket 9y agoI've read it, but give more thought to points 3 and 4. Obviously people were sometimes having extramarital sex, but they were not freely admitting it and it could be truly scandalous (particularly for the woman) if someone learned of it.
- leephillips 9y agoD.H. Lawrence's take on Franklin's virtues is immortal: http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/lewiss/lawrence.htm http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/lewiss/lawrence.htm My high school English teacher, Frank McCourt, used to love reading this out loud.
- cholantesh 9y agoThe Frank McCourt? Angela's Ashes Frank McCourt?
- Tokkemon 9y agoWell he did teach English. At Stuyvessant if I recall correctly.
- leephillips 9y agoYes, every semester for 2.5 years while at Stuyvesant H.S. I remember his voice clearly, when he paused and said, "I do not like him."
- Arubis 9y agoWhat was it like having him as a teacher? His writings portray him as deeply passionate about the field & a very genuine human being; I'd be interested to know how your experience compared. Also, I'm incredibly jealous.
- leephillips 9y agoWell, put it this way: One day there was some kind of staffing glitch, and one of my classes had no teacher. So 30 students were left to their own devices; some snuck outside, some went to the cafeteria to socialize, some to the library, or to the auditorium, which was used as a kind of study hall. At the time, McCourt was covering Hamlet. Remember high school? Every subject, every day, for forty minutes. I went to McCourt’s classroom, found the one empty desk, and sat down. He glanced at me and kept on going, without missing a beat. I re-read Hamlet every few years. In my inner voice, the characters have a tendency to slip into an Irish accent.
- emodendroket 9y agoI'm sorry but it's very hard for me to take seriously Ben Franklin's exhortations to chastity and temperance. I guess he had some awareness of this given his famous dialogue with gout. http://www.bartleby.com/109/3.html http://www.bartleby.com/109/3.html
- smaddox 9y agoI doubt Ben took them seriously. He's well known for having fabricated popular stories on slow publication weeks/months. This was likely his form of click-bate.
- tome 9y agoClick-bait? I think click-bate is something else.
- B1FF_PSUVM 9y agoWith bated click - the moving mouse/finger hovers for a while, then, having hovered, moves on.
- purplezooey 9y agoEspecially if it's something on medium.com
- emodendroket 9y agoI mean the list of virtues is very typical of this era in America anyway, to be fair to Ben Franklin. I doubt a lot of thought went into it.
- breckinloggins 9y agoI look at it the other way around: the reason these were so important to Franklin was that he knew perfectly well how bad he was at them. Somewhere along the line we've conflated valuing virtue with already being virtuous. The hypocrisy of most "moral movements" doesn't help, of course.
- PatientTrades 9y agoGreat post, nice system to improve the self. Sidenote: I think its fair to say Franklin never achieved the "Justice" virtue considering he was considered a racist. I guess pretty much all influential white man in America during the 1700s were though. But check out Benjamin Franklin's "Obervations Concerning the Increase of Mankind, Peopling of Countries."
- allan_golds 9y agoUnclosable pop-up window.
- leephillips 9y agoIn case the attempt to maintain chastity were in danger of failing, Franklin had some interesting advice on one way to handle that: http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bdorsey1/41docs/51-fra.html http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bdorsey1/41docs/51-fra.html
- bjourne 9y ago1. Don't waste too much time on Hacker News.
- bhhaskin 9y agoInteresting read, thanks!
- irrational 9y agoThe first thing that came to mind when reading the list: 1. TEMPERANCE Hara Hachi Bu 2. SILENCE It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. 3. ORDER This would be my wife's number 1. She abhors clutter. 4. RESOLUTION Why is this called resolution instead of honesty? 5. FRUGALITY Avoid debt I guess. 6. INDUSTRY Genius is one percent inspiration, ninety-nine percent perspiration. 7. SINCERITY Not sure about this one. Don't be deceitful? 8. JUSTICE I should receive compensation for my work. I shouldn't receive compensation for work that I don't do. If I break a law I should receive the corresponding penalty. If I don't break a law I should not be penalized. 9. MODERATION How is this different than temperance? 10. CLEANLINESS Take a shower once in awhile. 11. TRANQUILLITY Don't be an asshole? 12. CHASTITY Get checked for STIs on a regular basis. 13. HUMILITY Humility is not thinking less of yourself; it is thinking of yourself less.
- ghostbrainalpha 9y ago>12. CHASTITY Get checked for STIs on a regular basis. I think that even in a modern context you are setting the bar a little low there. But good for you for getting regular check-ups!
- komali2 9y agoYea I'd swap that for "wear a condom."
- redbeard0x0a 9y ago> 8. JUSTICE ... Also, you should pay for other people's work, not demand that they do things for free.
- irrational 9y agoIsn't that the same as "I should receive compensation for my work."? The I is just a placeholder for any person.
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- jaymeh13 9y agoOP here. This system is helpful but imperfect. I welcome any suggestions on virtues or practicing them.
- monkmartinez 9y agoStoicism. You just missed Stoic Week 2017, but you should be able to find the course materials online.
- jsilence 9y agoAny good pointers and/or advice on getting into stoicism?
- Lasher 9y agoI had to look up "venery" :)
- greglindahl 9y agoDon't miss out on "term of venery" -- it means more than STDs and sex.
- gumby 9y agoThe submission should be titled, "How I have been practicing Ben Franklin's 13 virtue system for 3 years" I went to the article to see why the author had stopped, thinking I'd learn something about such systems (leephillips' comment sheds more on this question). The author interestingly describes how he followed such a process but doesn't really get into the benefits or drawbacks and it sounds like he is continuing.
- Exuma 9y agoIf you're interested in something like this, but something that seems a lot more "applicable", try to do sentence completions according to this book. It's one of the best books I have ever read, and I don't say that lightly. Every person I recommend it to instantly is blown away. https://www.amazon.com/Six-Pillars-Self-Esteem-Nathaniel-Branden-ebook/dp/B007JK9BAY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508952781&sr=8-1&keywords=6+pillars+of+self+esteem https://www.amazon.com/Six-Pillars-Self-Esteem-Nathaniel-Bra... He talks about sentence completions in there. I've been doing them and just a few days of doing them I've already made major changes that I haven't been able to make with "just" mind and willpower. It's like it somehow digs up stuff out of your subconscious and lets it go.
- costcopizza 9y agoWow, this looks fantastic. Thanks for the rec
- blakesterz 9y agoI like the look of those: http://www.nathanielbranden.com/sentence-completion-i http://www.nathanielbranden.com/sentence-completion-i
- hsitz 9y agoI agree that's an excellent book, and that his sentence completion exercises are helpful. I would caution against thinking they're some kind of magical thing; they help, that's all, there's still lots of work a person needs to do. In any case, anyone who's interested can start out by reading the same exercises on his website (which is still there even though Branden died several years ago): http://www.nathanielbranden.com/sentence-completion-i http://www.nathanielbranden.com/sentence-completion-i http://www.nathanielbranden.com/sentence-completion-ii http://www.nathanielbranden.com/sentence-completion-ii
- ravenstine 9y agoJust a note on Bushido: Although I'm sure such codes can be useful to people, it's essentially bullcrap got used to fuel Japan's rise of fascism. https://www.tofugu.com/japan/bushido/ https://www.tofugu.com/japan/bushido/ I particularly loathe the term as I've heard it used by more than one desperate "white knight" who doesn't practice a single bit of it but uses it to appear virtuous. Whenever I hear someone mention "bushido", my first instinct is to assume they don't know what they're talking about. I think it's fine to espouse the ideology if one actually takes it seriously and understands the history(or lack thereof). Sadly, it seems more often to be used as a seemingly non-denominational form of code to be adopted by those trying to mask their own lack of virtue. Then again, it's probably more effective to adopt parts of different ideologies you find useful rather than taint yourself with a name like Bushido.
- datawarrior 9y agoJapan was never Fascist
- ravenstine 9y agoCare to explain? 1930s/40s Japan was an authoritarian nationalist regime. I don't see how they weren't fascist, but I'm open to being proven wrong.
- krapp 9y agoArguably, as Fascism was an actual political movement in Italy, Japan could no more have been considered Fascists than they could have been considere Nazis. They were Imperialists. However both 'fascist' and 'nazi' have commonly understood meanings beyond am affiliation with their respective political parties, so while datawarrior was technically correct (making them the best kind of correct) they were also being needlessly pedantic.
- datawarrior 9y agoYou should look up what Fascism actually is. Sad this has to be pointed out on HN. Really sad
- sreyaNotfilc 9y agoWhat a small world. I was looking at purchasing the Walter Issac's Ben Franklin book from Audible yesterday. I remember seeing a Discovery documentary about him a few years back and found Ben to be fascinating (before that documentary, he was the guy who flew a kite). I do know that after a while he did do away with his 13 virtues since many of then conflicted with each other (after all, the dude was a ladies man). I guess its a decent experiment to try, but I think its over doing it to have it as your way of life (well 13 virtues anyway). I do like the virtue of being Proactive and Silence. Maybe I should practice them for a week.
- toasterlovin 9y agoIf you’re considering reading a Ben Franklin biography, I would highly recommend reading his autobiography as well (if you haven’t already).
- pcunite 9y agoHis number 13 is interesting. To type that out in a post would normally get you down voted by the angry young mob around here.
- matchagaucho 9y agoAs I recall, the punchline to Ben's pursuit of 13 virtues was "Adhering to all these virtues makes one too perfect to be humble" The list is self-conflicting. Franklin's conclusion basically was "everything in moderation".
- miranda_rights 9y agoYeah, I thought the list was supposed to be satirical/humorous but it sounds like the author of the article was really trying to follow the virtues. Am I missing something?
- burntrelish1273 9y agoMy favorite BF ancillary axiom is "Advice to a friend on choosing a mistress." There are zillions of horny, middle-upper-class women whom do pilates, yoga, etc. and are HAF. So much nicer to see someone whom has fewer hangups, expectations, drama and behaves more like an adult. Chastity (12.) implies neither celibacy nor promiscuity, but Moderation (9.).
- theyregreat 9y agoI hear you, brother. Much less work for more benefits with benefits. Men and women both have sex on the Maslow hierarchy of needs, to varying degrees. Men and women both get mood and cardio improvements from getting laid regularly. PSA: Practice safer sex.