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My parents installed a lockbox on their porch for packages. They include the combination to unlock it in the delivery address, which works most of the time. It'

My parents installed a lockbox on their porch for packages. They include the combination to unlock it in the delivery address, which works most of the time. It's secure enough for the task and obscures whether or not a package is sitting out indicating you're not home. Plus, if it falls, the failure is contained. You could even get all cloudy-wowdy about it, if you want. Have the delivery folk use NFC, or some such, to get in. I find the "include the code in the address" solution pretty elegant, though. This seems to me like a better solution for their suburban single-family house. ...in fact, it's so much a better solution that I can't imagine Amazon hadn't considered it. They could easily sell Amazon Qubbies with the same pitch they're making here. I can only conclude that the real goal is to get you to install those cameras. Side-anecdote/thought: I used to live in a mixed-use building with 20 units, or so. One of the businesses downstairs was a DVD rental place (this was only a couple years ago; they're still there!), and they volunteered to accept packages for the upstairs residents. Little informal services like that can add up to something that can't be replicated by all the technology in the world, and I worry a bit about the consequences of seeking to obsolesce them.

elsewhen 9y ago
> I can only conclude that the real goal is to get you to install those cameras I suspect that the ultimate goal is to grant home access to their home-services pros (ie home cleaners) while you are away.
- gnicholas 9y ago
  Also food delivery, so they could put food in your fridge. It's not hard to imagine Amazon stocking everyone's pantries during the day while people are at work.
  - deegles 9y ago
    Amazon should have bought TaskRabbit for that!
- ballenf 9y ago
  Kind of an amazing age where the concept of a butler on demand is available to the middle class. I don't like the idea for myself, but the concept is incredible.
  - bzbarsky 9y ago
    Actually, for the middle class (which was admittedly somewhat smaller than what we may think of as "middle class" now) domestic help was pretty normal before the 20th century. http://www.bradford-delong.com/2013/01/agatha-christie-i-never-thought-i-would-be-so-poor-as-to-not-have-live-in-staff-or-so-rich-as-to-have-a-car-and-driver.html http://www.bradford-delong.com/2013/01/agatha-christie-i-nev... is somewhat telling; Agatha Kristie's Wikipedia entry says her family was "upper middle-class", but it's not that common for families like that to have live-in help nowadays. Except maybe au pair arrangements.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    Having occasional domestic help has been typical of the middle class in capitalist societies for a long time; in early capitalist societies, often full-time rather than occasional, but with smaller staff than the upper class.
- mseebach 9y ago
  Why can't the real goal be the stated one? It's already very beneficial to Amazon, serving to further build a moat around Amazon being where you buy everything. This constant lazy conspiracy theorizing every time a large company does anything is really grating.
  - dplgk 9y ago
    But it's also a worthwhile exercise. Should we just always take them at their word? History has proven we shouldn't.
  - elsewhen 9y ago
    i was responding to the parent who said " I can only conclude" so i thought that providing an alternative conclusion would add to the discussion. i don't think this is lazy conspiracy... many amazon pages in the U.S. heavily promote their home services offerings so it is clearly an important initiative for them. furthermore, "amazon key" does solve a really big problem with home services: service pros typically work during the business day, but some (perhams most) of the best customers are at work during that time.
- hypersoar 9y ago
  That's a good point. There are probably other possibilities, but I think that this is about more than package delivery.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  Haven't a bunch of people failed to establish themselves as that particular middleman? (pretty much because anyone good at doing the cleaning can just cut out the middleman)
dastbe 9y ago
Amazon is pitching the Amazon Locker tech to apartment buildings now https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/27/amazon-launches-the-hub-parcel-delivery-lockers-for-apartment-buildings/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/27/amazon-launches-the-hub-pa... Having used them a bunch while working at Amazon they're super nice, but not very practical for large/heavy packages because I had to get them back home. Getting one at or near my home would obviously make me order everything I could to it. It would also remove my biggest complaint about AMZL deliveries not being able to get into my freaking mailroom.
- WorldMaker 9y ago
  At the risk of driving further off topic, but AMZL delivery people being confused and/or unable to get into my building mailroom has been a particular nightmare the last few deliveries for me, too. I appreciate they are trying to be more strict in their deliveries than in the past and want to try to lose fewer packages than they used to, but the tools at their disposal to handle this (versus UPS, FedEx, and USPS) are woefully under-developed. The web form to respond to delivery failures doesn't have enough options (and is very suburb focused at that), and at this point I would almost prefer a pickup location option and just pickup things from some equivalent of a UPS Store or Post Office. Maybe they could put Amazon Lockers in Whole Foods or something? (I guess to end somewhat on topic: the mailroom issue is precisely why Amazon Key wouldn't work for me. It seems like a far more suburban solution to the problem.)
  - nitrogen 9y ago
    There's another locker company, Luxer One, that takes deliveries from all of the carriers, not just Amazon. Probably others out there.
    - dastbe 9y ago
      The Hub lockers (i would say Amazon lockers as well? i've always seen UPS people filling them...) can accept deliveries from all delivery services, not just AMZL.
    - 9y ago
EADGBE 9y ago
I could see HOAs having a problem with porch cubbies. Also how do you include the code? Address line 2? 3? Memo? I don't always see these.
- kobeya 9y ago
  There's almost always a "special delivery instructions" field.
  - erjjones 9y ago
    Ideally, the cubbie would work like a PostOffice drop box and have a way to insert packages at will with out a code and then the owner has a key to unlock the cubbie.
    - benjsec 9y ago
      Perhaps something like a old-fashioned padlock? Anyone can click it shut and then you need the key to unlock it again.
      - astura 9y ago
        Yeah, that's the traditional package box. This is an example: http://www.pe.com/wp-content/uploads/migration/oh4/oh4e3m-b88839987z.120161123161458000g49k46je.10.jpg?w=620 http://www.pe.com/wp-content/uploads/migration/oh4/oh4e3m-b8... The issue with that is people know if there's a package in there or not, you can't have more than one delivery service come in a single day, and you run the risk of vandals running off with your lock.
    - egypturnash 9y ago
      Someone is leaving dog shit on your neighbor's lawn. It's not you, you pick up after your dog, but your neighbor is convinced it's you. Late one night, your neighbor saunters up to your drop box and empties a bag full of dog shit into it.
      - 9y ago
chinstorff 9y ago
> if it fails, the failure is contained What about the failure mode when the courier doesn't follow your parents instructions and leaves the package on the porch? Now you have the code to the lockbox of the key to the house sitting on the porch where anyone who approaches can gain access to the house.
- ajoy39 9y ago
  The lockbox was for the packages themselves, not for the keys to the house.
  - crescentfresh 9y ago
    Oh boy, took your comment to finally get this. I take lockbox to mean the thing you put on the front door itself to gain access to the house.
    - eric_h 9y ago
      It means that, too - real estate agents use the term for the little key box they use to let other agents see vacant houses. Personally I'd use the term "locker" to refer to a box placed outside in which to store packages.
- bagels 9y ago
  You change the code, and a few packages get stolen just as would happen if you didn't have the box.
- em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
  Don't put your house key inside the lockbox!
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
lazyant 9y ago
> I find the "include the code in the address" solution pretty elegant, though. This seems to me like a better solution for their suburban single-family house. ...in fact, it's so much a better solution that I can't imagine Amazon hadn't considered it Not following, Amazon has an option for "include key code" in their orders
- ballenf 9y ago
  But no option to instruct the delivery person to use that for anything other than access to a gate or building common area. He's taking the concept one step further to using the code for the delivery person to open one's main/front door.
- cat199 9y ago
  having a code for a box outside vs the ability to access your house is the idea..
dheera 9y ago
We'll have to see how this plays out in terms of whether FedEx, USPS, the multitude of delivery startups out there get "locked out" of the system and are at the mercy of the user needing to be around to receive packages, while Amazon provides their secure in-home deliveries. I wonder if that would be sufficient grounds for an antitrust suit if it happens.
- lanaius 9y ago
  Doubtful, the other players wouldn't be in any different scenario than they were before Amazon tried this.
robbiemitchell 9y ago
Amazon could use this idea to generate a unique code in your address every time you order a delivery, thus removing the requirement that couriers use a special app. The code would expire after a single use, after the package is signaled to have been delivered, or after x days -- whichever comes first.
c3534l 9y ago
My apartment complex had the same thing, except the box held a key to the front door. But then some junkies literally chiseled out the box from the masonry. Now I think they just gave UPS a key and they give it to whoever does the deliveries. There are so many better low-tech solutions that aren't complete security and liability nightmares.
vmarsy 9y ago
> ...in fact, it's so much a better solution that I can't imagine Amazon hadn't considered it. I agree that it seem a better solution to the one scenario you're mentioning: delivering packages. But if you watch the video in the article [1], they describe other scenarios: "maybe let in your dog walker, a friend, or maybe to let in a team of cleaning ninjas" I don't think it's too far-fetched to see the 'friend' here being actually your airbnb guest. Many airbnb homes already use a rudimentary lockbox with code, if the guest can now instead set up something on their amazon account and know they'll be able to get in (at least the initial check-in, and have a key waiting on the coffee table), it could make the experience smoother for the guests, and the host as well. [1] https://youtu.be/wn7DBdaUNLA?t=30s https://youtu.be/wn7DBdaUNLA?t=30s
TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
Even better would be just a large post box, locked door on the back / side, large chute opening on the front. Or a night safe style sliding opening in to a large metal box or in to the house through a wall. This way the delivery person doesn't need to know a pin etc.
DrScump 9y ago
They include the combination to unlock it in the delivery address Most shipping software will "standardize" addresses, contorting it to CASS standards, often thereby omitting unparsable add-ons. In fact, most will contort my address to something the USPS will bounce back to the shipper if the P.O. takes its rules to the letter ("#123" gets changed to "UNIT 123", which the USPS considers invalid).

elsewhen 9y ago

> I can only conclude that the real goal is to get you to install those cameras I suspect that the ultimate goal is to grant home access to their home-services pros (ie home cleaners) while you are away.

gnicholas 9y ago
Also food delivery, so they could put food in your fridge. It's not hard to imagine Amazon stocking everyone's pantries during the day while people are at work.
- deegles 9y ago
  Amazon should have bought TaskRabbit for that!
ballenf 9y ago
Kind of an amazing age where the concept of a butler on demand is available to the middle class. I don't like the idea for myself, but the concept is incredible.
- bzbarsky 9y ago
  Actually, for the middle class (which was admittedly somewhat smaller than what we may think of as "middle class" now) domestic help was pretty normal before the 20th century. http://www.bradford-delong.com/2013/01/agatha-christie-i-never-thought-i-would-be-so-poor-as-to-not-have-live-in-staff-or-so-rich-as-to-have-a-car-and-driver.html http://www.bradford-delong.com/2013/01/agatha-christie-i-nev... is somewhat telling; Agatha Kristie's Wikipedia entry says her family was "upper middle-class", but it's not that common for families like that to have live-in help nowadays. Except maybe au pair arrangements.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  Having occasional domestic help has been typical of the middle class in capitalist societies for a long time; in early capitalist societies, often full-time rather than occasional, but with smaller staff than the upper class.
mseebach 9y ago
Why can't the real goal be the stated one? It's already very beneficial to Amazon, serving to further build a moat around Amazon being where you buy everything. This constant lazy conspiracy theorizing every time a large company does anything is really grating.
- dplgk 9y ago
  But it's also a worthwhile exercise. Should we just always take them at their word? History has proven we shouldn't.
- elsewhen 9y ago
  i was responding to the parent who said " I can only conclude" so i thought that providing an alternative conclusion would add to the discussion. i don't think this is lazy conspiracy... many amazon pages in the U.S. heavily promote their home services offerings so it is clearly an important initiative for them. furthermore, "amazon key" does solve a really big problem with home services: service pros typically work during the business day, but some (perhams most) of the best customers are at work during that time.
hypersoar 9y ago
That's a good point. There are probably other possibilities, but I think that this is about more than package delivery.
maxerickson 9y ago
Haven't a bunch of people failed to establish themselves as that particular middleman? (pretty much because anyone good at doing the cleaning can just cut out the middleman)

dastbe 9y ago

Amazon is pitching the Amazon Locker tech to apartment buildings now https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/27/amazon-launches-the-hub-parcel-delivery-lockers-for-apartment-buildings/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/27/amazon-launches-the-hub-pa... Having used them a bunch while working at Amazon they're super nice, but not very practical for large/heavy packages because I had to get them back home. Getting one at or near my home would obviously make me order everything I could to it. It would also remove my biggest complaint about AMZL deliveries not being able to get into my freaking mailroom.

WorldMaker 9y ago
At the risk of driving further off topic, but AMZL delivery people being confused and/or unable to get into my building mailroom has been a particular nightmare the last few deliveries for me, too. I appreciate they are trying to be more strict in their deliveries than in the past and want to try to lose fewer packages than they used to, but the tools at their disposal to handle this (versus UPS, FedEx, and USPS) are woefully under-developed. The web form to respond to delivery failures doesn't have enough options (and is very suburb focused at that), and at this point I would almost prefer a pickup location option and just pickup things from some equivalent of a UPS Store or Post Office. Maybe they could put Amazon Lockers in Whole Foods or something? (I guess to end somewhat on topic: the mailroom issue is precisely why Amazon Key wouldn't work for me. It seems like a far more suburban solution to the problem.)
- nitrogen 9y ago
  There's another locker company, Luxer One, that takes deliveries from all of the carriers, not just Amazon. Probably others out there.
  - dastbe 9y ago
    The Hub lockers (i would say Amazon lockers as well? i've always seen UPS people filling them...) can accept deliveries from all delivery services, not just AMZL.
  - 9y ago

EADGBE 9y ago

I could see HOAs having a problem with porch cubbies. Also how do you include the code? Address line 2? 3? Memo? I don't always see these.

kobeya 9y ago
There's almost always a "special delivery instructions" field.
- erjjones 9y ago
  Ideally, the cubbie would work like a PostOffice drop box and have a way to insert packages at will with out a code and then the owner has a key to unlock the cubbie.
  - benjsec 9y ago
    Perhaps something like a old-fashioned padlock? Anyone can click it shut and then you need the key to unlock it again.
    - astura 9y ago
      Yeah, that's the traditional package box. This is an example: http://www.pe.com/wp-content/uploads/migration/oh4/oh4e3m-b88839987z.120161123161458000g49k46je.10.jpg?w=620 http://www.pe.com/wp-content/uploads/migration/oh4/oh4e3m-b8... The issue with that is people know if there's a package in there or not, you can't have more than one delivery service come in a single day, and you run the risk of vandals running off with your lock.
  - egypturnash 9y ago
    Someone is leaving dog shit on your neighbor's lawn. It's not you, you pick up after your dog, but your neighbor is convinced it's you. Late one night, your neighbor saunters up to your drop box and empties a bag full of dog shit into it.
    - 9y ago

chinstorff 9y ago

> if it fails, the failure is contained What about the failure mode when the courier doesn't follow your parents instructions and leaves the package on the porch? Now you have the code to the lockbox of the key to the house sitting on the porch where anyone who approaches can gain access to the house.

ajoy39 9y ago
The lockbox was for the packages themselves, not for the keys to the house.
- crescentfresh 9y ago
  Oh boy, took your comment to finally get this. I take lockbox to mean the thing you put on the front door itself to gain access to the house.
  - eric_h 9y ago
    It means that, too - real estate agents use the term for the little key box they use to let other agents see vacant houses. Personally I'd use the term "locker" to refer to a box placed outside in which to store packages.
bagels 9y ago
You change the code, and a few packages get stolen just as would happen if you didn't have the box.
em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
Don't put your house key inside the lockbox!

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

lazyant 9y ago

> I find the "include the code in the address" solution pretty elegant, though. This seems to me like a better solution for their suburban single-family house. ...in fact, it's so much a better solution that I can't imagine Amazon hadn't considered it Not following, Amazon has an option for "include key code" in their orders

ballenf 9y ago
But no option to instruct the delivery person to use that for anything other than access to a gate or building common area. He's taking the concept one step further to using the code for the delivery person to open one's main/front door.
cat199 9y ago
having a code for a box outside vs the ability to access your house is the idea..

dheera 9y ago

We'll have to see how this plays out in terms of whether FedEx, USPS, the multitude of delivery startups out there get "locked out" of the system and are at the mercy of the user needing to be around to receive packages, while Amazon provides their secure in-home deliveries. I wonder if that would be sufficient grounds for an antitrust suit if it happens.

lanaius 9y ago
Doubtful, the other players wouldn't be in any different scenario than they were before Amazon tried this.

robbiemitchell 9y ago

Amazon could use this idea to generate a unique code in your address every time you order a delivery, thus removing the requirement that couriers use a special app. The code would expire after a single use, after the package is signaled to have been delivered, or after x days -- whichever comes first.

c3534l 9y ago

My apartment complex had the same thing, except the box held a key to the front door. But then some junkies literally chiseled out the box from the masonry. Now I think they just gave UPS a key and they give it to whoever does the deliveries. There are so many better low-tech solutions that aren't complete security and liability nightmares.

vmarsy 9y ago

> ...in fact, it's so much a better solution that I can't imagine Amazon hadn't considered it. I agree that it seem a better solution to the one scenario you're mentioning: delivering packages. But if you watch the video in the article [1], they describe other scenarios: "maybe let in your dog walker, a friend, or maybe to let in a team of cleaning ninjas" I don't think it's too far-fetched to see the 'friend' here being actually your airbnb guest. Many airbnb homes already use a rudimentary lockbox with code, if the guest can now instead set up something on their amazon account and know they'll be able to get in (at least the initial check-in, and have a key waiting on the coffee table), it could make the experience smoother for the guests, and the host as well. [1] https://youtu.be/wn7DBdaUNLA?t=30s https://youtu.be/wn7DBdaUNLA?t=30s

TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago

Even better would be just a large post box, locked door on the back / side, large chute opening on the front. Or a night safe style sliding opening in to a large metal box or in to the house through a wall. This way the delivery person doesn't need to know a pin etc.

DrScump 9y ago

They include the combination to unlock it in the delivery address Most shipping software will "standardize" addresses, contorting it to CASS standards, often thereby omitting unparsable add-ons. In fact, most will contort my address to something the USPS will bounce back to the shipper if the P.O. takes its rules to the letter ("#123" gets changed to "UNIT 123", which the USPS considers invalid).